Is there an ULTIMATE 1911? - Gun Hub
Gun Hub

Go Back   Gun Hub > Gun Forum > Handguns

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-31-2017, 03:07 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
M118LR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: 29.62 N 81.219 W
Posts: 207
Is there an ULTIMATE 1911?

Having been issued and owned a few 1911's over the course of my lifetime, I was just wondering what others felt is the ULTIMATE 1911?
M118LR is offline  
Old 01-31-2017, 03:11 PM   #2
Forum Admin
 
SpecialEd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wilmington, DelaWhere?
Posts: 6,905
Quote:
"There is only one smartest dog in the world, and every boy has it."
-Anonymous
Same with guns, subjective.
SpecialEd is offline  
Old 01-31-2017, 03:44 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
M118LR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: 29.62 N 81.219 W
Posts: 207
I'm courting the subjective, but I am weighting the opinions heavier on the side of those that have spent thier time on the trigger of a 1911. I'll even lend an ear to those sacrilegious folks that think an external extractor might be an improvement to John Browning's original design. Feel free to toss out Y'all's unabashed opinions.

But perhaps I've taken in to much ground? As the 1911 covers so many different roles within the shooting world.

How about categories?

Ultimate Concealed Carry 1911.
Ultimate Collector 1911.
Ultimate Competition 1911. (might even be some sub-categories)
Ultimate Patrol 1911.

Please list features/reasons why you selected what your Ultimate is so that others can ponder/learn from Y'all's experiences. Thank You.

Last edited by M118LR; 02-01-2017 at 01:50 PM. Reason: to broad.
M118LR is offline  
 
Old 02-01-2017, 06:31 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Diamondback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle area--Sodom & Gomorrah on Puget Sound
Posts: 1,784
Collection: One of the Singer (or were they US&S?) handful that Patton had for Instant Attaboys.

No-holds-barred combat: This isn't anywhere outside a concept, but I would start with the "Optimal Performance Spec" reinforced frame and slide that Jerry Kuhnhausen proposed, beefed up for either 10mm ACP or .45 Super--better yet, a three-barrel set in 10, Super and .50 GI--and a 7" AMT Hardballer-style longslide, with the barrels threaded and custom-made "up-bore" versions of Precision Armament's AFAB flash-arrestor/brake hybrid. Possibly also a 5" slide/barrel set for CC use.

Personal preference would be to add some more muzzle weight by using a Government-style radius (rather than "splice" the added length at the end like how Jim Clark made the first Longslides, have the extension behind the radius). Full ambi controls, and an A1 arched MSH if we're building this for my hand.
Diamondback is offline  
Old 02-01-2017, 06:49 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Charlie Petty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,961
I've been involved in every aspect of the 1911 since 1959. Building, shooting and collecting and there is no objective ultimate standard.

I have several that qualify in my world but that's all
Charlie Petty is offline  
Old 02-02-2017, 01:54 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
M118LR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: 29.62 N 81.219 W
Posts: 207
Diamondback, I don't know if any of the Old handwritten custody cards have been saved or cataloged, so I'm not sure how you would be able to identify which units/individuals had been issued which particular 1911A1.

"World War II and the years leading up to it created a great demand. During the war, about 1.9 million units were procured by the U.S. Government for all forces, production being undertaken by several manufacturers, including Remington Rand (900,000 produced), Colt (400,000), Ithaca Gun Company (400,000), Union Switch & Signal (50,000), and Singer (500)." excerpt from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

I'm not sure that I would like to carry a "Zero" tolerance slide to frame fit 1911 into the moon-dust of the sandbox. Perhaps the sloppier fitting Government Originals would be a more reliable option?

Charlie Petty, I would consider it an honor if you would expound upon the features and build requirements for a qualifying CC 1911, Target 1911, and Duty 1911.
M118LR is offline  
Old 02-02-2017, 03:22 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Northern NV
Posts: 238
To me the ultimate collectible 1911 would be a pre-War Commercial Match .38 Super.

As for most other categories filled by a 1911 variant, a LW Commander in .38 Super would fill most of my needs rather well.

Ed Brown tactical single side safety
Ed Brown grip safety
Videcki style LW trigger
Round old school type Commander Hammer
CTC Laser Grips
Novak tritium sights
Ramped Nowlin barrel
Standard barrel bushing
Aluminum checkered flat mainspring
Spare 9mm barrel and magazines
If this was a dedicated CC pistol, then I would have it hard chromed.
GunGeek is offline  
Old 02-02-2017, 03:41 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Skeptic49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Augustine, FL
Posts: 2,265
After donning my Marauder powered armor: Colt Gold Cup .38 Special built in the early 60s for competition and factory tuned.

Geoff
Who owned one from a little later in .45 ACP, and sold it to buy a house.
Skeptic49 is offline  
Old 02-02-2017, 05:59 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
csmkersh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 9,757
The ultimate 1911 is the one in your holster.
csmkersh is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 02:05 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
M118LR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: 29.62 N 81.219 W
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmkersh View Post
The ultimate 1911 is the one in your holster.
Just a touch of nostalgia.

Have they really ever made a better Target sight than the Old Bo Mar available on the AMT Long slide or Colt Gold Cup National Match?

While there is a discussion on Novak Tritium vice Meprolight Tritium, isn't it better to have the front sight milled as part of the slide and drill in a tritium tube if extreme dependability is a factor?

I'm kind of wondering just how many folks actually have Tritium sights on thier duty 1911? If I was more computer literate I'd post up one of them polls: Tritium Night Sights Yes or No so that we could get an actual percentage. But I'm not that skilled.

Is a 1911 in anything less than .45 ACP actually on the ULTIMATE Lists?

Reading pleasure: https://books.google.com/books?id=OJ...istols&f=false

Last edited by M118LR; 02-03-2017 at 02:18 PM. Reason: reading pleasure.
M118LR is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 02:13 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Diamondback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle area--Sodom & Gomorrah on Puget Sound
Posts: 1,784
M118LR, does 10mm count? LOL

Re tritium, I personally skip it--my old "duty" 1911 only has (and only will ever have; the gunsmith I bought it from specially tuned it for duty use for me before handing it over at no extra cost, and I'm not gonna fix things that aren't broken) old-school GI blades, and I have sensitive enough low-light vision that bright illuminated sights can be a blindingly bad idea for my eyes.
Diamondback is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 02:27 PM   #12
Forum Admin
 
SpecialEd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wilmington, DelaWhere?
Posts: 6,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by M118LR View Post
>>>>>>>>>

Is a 1911 in anything less than .45 ACP actually on the ULTIMATE Lists?
Apparently, on Kevin's and Geoff's lists.
SpecialEd is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 02:33 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
M118LR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: 29.62 N 81.219 W
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
M118LR, does 10mm count? LOL

Re tritium, I personally skip it--my old "duty" 1911 only has (and only will ever have; the gunsmith I bought it from specially tuned it for duty use for me before handing it over at no extra cost, and I'm not gonna fix things that aren't broken) old-school GI blades, and I have sensitive enough low-light vision that bright illuminated sights can be a blindingly bad idea for my eyes.
10mm can be hard on the frame, and takes even more practice to Master on the Combat Range, but it makes Major Power Levels so it's a "Player".

Re tritium: Me personally, I favor a set up with only the front sight glowing in the dark. Can't truly recall ever looking or seeing the rear sight in a fight. But my Old Eyes like having a clearly defined front sight in a fight in diminished light or worse. But that is just my preference, other more accomplished folks may have differing opinions. If you can still clearly pickup low Original GI style front blades in near darkness I agree with you completely. I have come to the realization that I no longer have such skill, so it's time to modify my equipment to match my current skill set.

Am I the only one wondering what happened to the Colt Ace?

Last edited by M118LR; 02-03-2017 at 02:38 PM.
M118LR is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 03:15 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Diamondback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle area--Sodom & Gomorrah on Puget Sound
Posts: 1,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecialEd View Post
Apparently, on Kevin's and Geoff's lists.
If for some reason like a bureaucratic moron mistaking his head for a suppository I absolutely HAVE to carry a sub-caliber lightweight, a 9mm 1911, or more preferably a .38 Super, .40S&W or .357 SIG would be my choice. If it HAS to be a damn double-action kludge, a Para LDA system as long as it has a thumb safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M118LR View Post
10mm can be hard on the frame, and takes even more practice to Master on the Combat Range, but it makes Major Power Levels so it's a "Player".
Hence my reference to Kuhnhausen--not on his tightening fit tolerances, but on the added metal to reinforce the frame and slide.
Diamondback is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 05:44 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
M118LR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: 29.62 N 81.219 W
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
Hence my reference to Kuhnhausen--not on his tightening fit tolerances, but on the added metal to reinforce the frame and slide.
I am also a fan of Kuhnhausen's builds, but as an end user I had to make it work. Many more can achieve a Combat level of competence with a .45 ACP than can achieve the same level of competence with a full bore 10mm. Attempt it, post your times, see how much longer you are required to practice to equal your times with a .45 ACP, and realize that the end result is measured in fractions of microseconds between KIA with a .45 ACP and a 10mm. Bet you arm your troops with the .45 ACP. JMHO.
M118LR is offline  
Old 02-03-2017, 08:25 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Diamondback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle area--Sodom & Gomorrah on Puget Sound
Posts: 1,784
@M118LR You're absolutely right, for large-scale issue I would stick with .45ACP, and still do for my personal EDC. The thinking was if it can eat 10mm without appreciable wear, +P ACP loads should be a piece of cake. (TBH, with my wrists and lack of upper body strength the smallest 10mm pistol I'd personally want would be a rechambered Auto-Ordnance T5 pistolized Thompson.)

How do .45 Super/.450 SMC compare to 10mm, anyway?
Diamondback is offline  
Old 02-04-2017, 05:36 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
csmkersh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 9,757
I believe you'll find that .45 Super and 10mm are very close to each other ballistically.
csmkersh is offline  
Old 02-04-2017, 01:52 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Diamondback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle area--Sodom & Gomorrah on Puget Sound
Posts: 1,784
Thanks, Top.

Part of my internal bias is that plain .45ACP (maybe .50GI, IIRC similar pressure to .45 Auto but bigger bore) is the biggest practical "general-purpose defense" load, 10mm/Super are more for those situations where YOU have to go on offense and be the Apex Predator--sort of the same class I think of .44 Magnum, .50 Action Express and the .460 and .500 S&W Magnums as being. Maybe this is a mis-perception on my part.
Diamondback is offline  
Old 02-04-2017, 02:26 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,138
you're missing one- the 460 Rowland- or the 451 detonics- I had a real detonics, made in seattle, and I wish the heck I wouldn't have sold it- back in those days you MADE cases out of 308/06 brass b/c the 45acp brass would fail just ahead of the extractor groove simple job for someone with a pipe cutter and a calipers
t-star is offline  
Old 02-04-2017, 03:02 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Diamondback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle area--Sodom & Gomorrah on Puget Sound
Posts: 1,784
True, @t-star, I was just going for "representative flavor" rather than "exhaustive list."

By the way, you have a PM, amigo.
Diamondback is offline  
Reply

  Gun Hub > Gun Forum > Handguns

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Army Ditching 1911 but None to CMP csmkersh Gun Talk 18 04-13-2017 06:10 AM
Nighthawk takes the Hi-Power the 1911 Clone route... DavidE Handguns 2 10-08-2016 04:00 PM




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002 - 2017 Gun Hub. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.