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Old 01-08-2013, 08:58 AM   #21
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As a recent purchaser of a brand new Colt’s 1911 (first new Colt’s in nearly 20 years), I have some observations on the .38 Super Model “O”

Likes
Fit and finish is superior to pretty much anyone out there making 1911’s. All the lines are straight, the cocking serrations are perfect. That’s a frequent mis-step for many other makers; my S&W is horrible in the cocking serrations. Most of the machine processes seem pretty much flawless on the Colt’s; really hard to find a machine mark anywhere. Bluing is much better than anything I’ve seen out of the competition. The visual aesthetics of the Colt’s leave their competition behind. Price was pretty competitive for what I consider a mid-level priced 1911 at just over $900. Mine has been completely reliable and remarkably accurate…Probably the most accurate semi-auto centerfire I own currently.

Dislikes:
Overall configuration…
It’s essentially a Series 80 pistol which was a good fit for the 1980’s but not so much today. I bought it because it “looks” like a classic 1911…but then again, it really doesn’t. I’m not exactly sure it does. Is it a 1911 or a 1911A1? It has the relief cuts behind the trigger, but then a long trigger and flat mainspring housing; identity crisis. Then there’s the other features that really ruin the “classic” part of the package. Lowered ejection port, high profile 3 dot sights (oh how I loathe them), and a beveled magazine well (Colt’s has always had the most piss poor mag well beveling I’ve ever seen). The still present synthetic trigger and MSH should go away. Don’t get me wrong, they PERFECTLY match the finish on my blued gun (that’s rather impressive) and it’s a slick way to get a lightweight trigger on a “classic” gun. But both should really be steel. “Buy the Series 70 gun” you say…Sure, but .38 Super isn’t an option in that line, and the Series 70’s still have the lowered ejection port. Oh, trigger pull sucked by the way; about 7lbs…That’s the only change I’ve made.

My point being: If you’re going to make a “classic” 1911 or 1911A1, then make a classic. If they were still making them, I would have gladly bought the “WW I 1911” they made; those were really cool. If they would make a Pre-Series 70 type 1911A1 in .38 Super, I’d take one in a heartbeat. Maybe it’s just me, maybe the market is responding to what they’re offering.

Honestly, I really don’t understand the relevance of a Series 80 type 1911 in today’s market. They should have two lines of 1911’s. Classic & Modern. If the Series 70 pistols are still good sellers (I can’t really imagine why) then you could group them under Classic.


Regardging their current “modern” 1911’s. What little I’ve seen/handled/shot; I have been left with a very positive impression. I shot a LW Commander in .38 Super that induced me to make an offer on the spot.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:13 AM   #22
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Good observations Charlie; just a few thoughs.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Petty View Post
The only surprise was that the vaunted Gold Cup didn't shoot any better than a basic Kimber or Springfield.
I think this is because the factories for the most part have learned how to make a fairly accurate 1911. It’s all in the fitting of the barrel. Back in the day, the average Colt’s 1911 didn’t even bother to use a properly sized link which is where you get a good majority of your accuracy; but the Gold Cup’s always had a properly fit link. Barrels in general (Colt’s and most everyone’s) have also benefitted from CNC machinery, so the “drop in” barrels the factories use tend to fit well at the lugs, hood, hooks, and bushing.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Petty View Post
It also looks like they are holding the line on prices although I guess we'll always pay a little more for the name.
Yes and no, I think it depends on the model. The .38 Super I just bought, the closest competitor is the RIA since there are few makers of .38 Supers. But the two match closely for “features” such as sights, lowered ejection port, etc. (all the things that to me at least detract from the “classic” 1911). My Colt’s is a good 40-45% more in price, but the fit and finish is worlds apart; very little to compare there. When I looked at a current LW Commander in .38 Super with features that compare favorably to my S&W M1911PD, the price was basically the same and to my eye at least, the Colt’s had the S&W beat.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Petty View Post
I will be surprised if they go back to double-action revolvers because S&W and Ruger really have that market cornered. If they tried to resurrect a DA revolver the old design would probably cost a fortune to make. I'm fairly sure they could design something new and sell some based on the name alone but I wonder if the revolver market is big enough to support a new entry.
For the most part, your right. The DA market is sewed up quite well; they could only chip away at the market share of S&W, Ruger, & Taurus. The Colt’s DA revolvers have been removed from the market for so long, most in today’s generation don’t even think about them…some may not even know Colt’s made DA revolvers. If they applied modern manufacturing, and make generous use of MIM, I’m betting they could make a little money on a lightweight version of the Detective Special…re-introduction of the Agent. But this would even be a long shot. The DS 6 shot design died out for a reason. Concealed carriers liked the 5 shot design better. Taurus released a 6 shot small frame and no one is buying it.

Lastly, Colt’s winning a contract with the Marines should be a good boost for them.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
Small, semi-custom operations like that just don't fare well in companies that have to be dedicating their money and efforts to higher production models.
As example, Korth is a semi-custom operation and a stand-alone.
In their best year they never made more than 100 guns, and they survive like all specialty small companies do, by offering something to the tiny handful of people with the money to afford it and willing to spend a small fortune to get it.
In a quarter century between the start of his gunmaking enterprise in 1954 and its sale in 1981, Willi Korth made 7741 documented revolvers, averaging around 310 a year. His successors to date have maintained a similar production rate. I disagree with the notion that artisanal workmanship has no place in a company dedicated to series production. A simple way to separate the two is to divert specially selected components for hand-fitting and assembly by master gunsmiths. Replicating the methods and practices of Korth would take supporting but five of them.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:52 PM   #24
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From Grant Cunningham's...

...recent SHOT Show report:
Quote:
...Korth revolvers start around $4k, which sounds like a lot - and it is. Let's put that into perspective, however: when I discussed the possibility of reviving the Python with the head of Colt's Custom Shop, he indicated that to reproduce it to the quality of the "classic" Python would mean a price tag of five large. (For those of you under 40, that's five grand or "five kay" - $5,000.) That level of hand fitting costs, no matter where it's made, which puts the Korth in the same ballpark a modern Python would have to be. The Korth people believe that there is a market for a high end revolver in this country, and I agree with them; the only question is whether people will understand that ANY revolver of such a grade is going to cost that much. I’m sure some will complain that a Performance Center gun is 1/4 of that cost while ignoring the fact that they’re hardly in the same fit-and-finish ballpark...
Source
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:28 PM   #25
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Korth revolvers start at 4,500 €, per the current factory price list I posted here. At today's exchange rate, this comes to $6,147.90.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:32 PM   #26
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This just in...Colt's is now making a DAO 1991 series pistol:

Aluminum frame, DA action looks much like the Para Ordnance but the Colt’s has a second strike capability whereas the PO LDA doesn’t. I gotta admit, I’m really rather baffled when I look at this gun; I can’t quite figure the market.

There’s no way it’s intended for Law Enforcement. If it were, it would wear synthetic grips, much more appropriate sighs, interchangeable backstraps, and much better sights…it would probably be about an inch shorter in the barrel also. So I don’t see it as an LE market gun.

For civilian sales, it’s an interesting alternative to what everyone else is producing, but exactly what is their “schtick in the market”…As in, what about it would make a guy say, “oh, I’d like to have that new Colt”. It has a very nice looking finish, and the grips are nice.

To someone who’s younger or new to guns, I don’t see them being interested. It looks like a semi-retro sort of pistol to the untrained eye.

For us old farts, it’s NOT a 1911, and we’re all wondering just what the heck it really is.

They have that action available on the New Agent series, and for that, I can see some appeal (not necessarily for me, but for someone else). Maybe it’s intended as a full size companion to the smaller pistol. In that case, I would think a Commander length version would be a bit more aesthetically appealing.

Now if they had built a gun like the .45 ACP Colt 1903 that Cylinder & Siide built a couple of years ago; I’d be rather interested in that. But this one, I just don’t get.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:32 PM   #27
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Speaking of the Model M... one I really wish they'd re-introduce. I'm an "anti-Colt snob" on 1911's (I like mine as close to WWII GI-spec as I can get other than maybe a little sight upgrade and a smooth-front trigger: short trigger, relief cuts and arched MSH all help my stubby little fingers get a proper grip) but for a 1908 .380 made to be reliable with modern hollowpoints, I'd bite... though if they'd launch a "Colt's Classics" line with guns made to the cosmetics of yesteryear's, I'd even be open to the use of modern materials and techniques (bring on the CNC!) as long as they looked right.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:28 PM   #28
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Speaking of the Model M... one I really wish they'd re-introduce. I'm an "anti-Colt snob" on 1911's (I like mine as close to WWII GI-spec as I can get other than maybe a little sight upgrade and a smooth-front trigger: short trigger, relief cuts and arched MSH all help my stubby little fingers get a proper grip) but for a 1908 .380 made to be reliable with modern hollowpoints, I'd bite... though if they'd launch a "Colt's Classics" line with guns made to the cosmetics of yesteryear's, I'd even be open to the use of modern materials and techniques (bring on the CNC!) as long as they looked right.
Put a HP in the pipe, and follow it up with either FMJ's or Buffalo Bore's RNFP cast bullet design. The .380 with hollow points is rather penetration challenged to begin with. Personally, for .32 ACP and .380, I just go FMJ, and rely on the loose nut behind the trigger to put them where they count. I have a couple of old school .32's and .380's and I carry them on rare occasion. But when I do I understand I"m a bit "under-gunned" and may have to put several rounds through the engine room before I get someone's attention.
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Old 05-09-2015, 08:19 AM   #29
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Bad news, from Hognose Man, via The Firearm Blog:

Colt?s Struggling To Stay Afloat, Bankruptcy Looms - The Firearm Blog

Worth a read. Hair pulling stuff if one is into financials. The term "hedge fund chutzpah" is brutal. I also forwarded the article to a certain former poster here, of The Gun Zone -- the authoritative resource for firearms information. , as I am sure he would find it of interest.

I guess we can always hope that Alan Mulally, Richard Branson or Mitt Romney has a real love for firearms, especially Colt ones, and will buy out the company if it tanks. Sad, as they have shown serious initiative lately on the product side. I still wonder how, with demand for guns through the roof, anyone could fail at making and selling decent quality pieces?

Mr. Mulally, who turned around Ford, after doing solid work at Boeing:

Alan Mulally - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would love to see what he could do if he took on running Colt as a project.

Last edited by DavidE; 05-09-2015 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Spelling correction
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Old 05-10-2015, 05:03 PM   #30
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Mulally was actually tossed out of Boeing for being the last Heritage Boeing executive there, and the last exec with any integrity--I know him by rep at a couple degrees of separation via contacts who worked under him, and while there ain't a lot of people who could say "come work for me" and get me to take down my freelancer's shingle he's one of 'em.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:35 PM   #31
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What are they thinking?

The pocket pistol market has good guns without bringing back something that died 50+ years ago.

I like the pocket model .32 and .380 guns because they make a nice collection and the old Colt pre-war blue is gorgeous.

My bet is they will be a new rarity.
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Old 05-11-2015, 07:45 AM   #32
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Just like that DAO 1911 I posted about...Funny, I knew when that pistol came out, I should have grabbed one. Not because there's anything special about it, but because I knew it wouldn't last for long and would go up in value sharply.
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Old 05-11-2015, 08:17 AM   #33
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To All,

Personally, I'd like Colt to bring back the 1908 pistol with an ambidextrous safety & that will safely feed/fire the newer "HOT" .380ACP JHP loads.
(I carried one of the little 1908 Colts for years, 24/7 & was quite fond of its lightness/flatness. Had it not been stolen from my quarters, I would likely still be carrying it in 2015.)

yours, sw
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:47 AM   #34
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Kevin,

My dealer had a Colt Double Eagle 1911 but didn't want to sell it to me as too many of his customers had problems with the pistol.
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Old 05-11-2015, 10:00 AM   #35
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Maybe that's why somebody called it the "double beagle".

I used to kick myself for not buying both the All American models when they flopped. Production was low but based on current prices nobody cares.
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Old 05-11-2015, 02:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Gibson View Post
Dislikes:
My point being: If you’re going to make a “classic” 1911 or 1911A1, then make a classic.
If you found a 7lb trigger, then Colt is continuing their "classic" traditions.

Kidding aside, Charlie's right back on the first page of this thread. Colt Patent Firearms Manufacturing should have been a HBS/WSB case study since WWII in how not to run a company.

Absolute arrogance about the concept that people would buy "Colt" regardless of quality/features can also be included.

A dignified burial would seem most appropriate at this time. The current Washington regime is unlikely to be as supporative of corporate life support in the firarms industry as past one.
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Old 05-11-2015, 08:05 PM   #37
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How many times can one be shot in the foot before they bleed out?

Colt doesn't deserve a decent burial... in fact I would truly hate to see the name die or be bastardized.

I caught lot of flak for defending S&W and their "deal" with the devil." They were truly amazed at the intensity of the public reaction. S&W recovered with a truly popular line of pistols... the M&P... and have carved out a chunk of the AR market for themselves with good products.

In a way Colt displayed the same sort of arrogance and believes that the name alone will sell guns. Sure it will, but with the entirety of their market segments (1911 and AR15) crowded by worthy competitors , unless they have a better mousetrap waiting in the wings a rocky road lies ahead.

Anyone remember the days of Dirty Harry when there were lines around the block to get a Model 29? How long did it take for Colt to offer a .44 Magnum when they had the basic design for one in the New Service?

What I would like to see is brilliant case hardening and blue so deep you can swim in it at a price an average Joe can afford. I think it could be done, but not easily.
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:07 PM   #38
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Charlie Petty,

AGREED & another thing that I would "stand in line" to buy is a new COBRA, at about 13-14 ounces unloaded.
(Titanium??)

In fact, I would buy a COBRA in each of: 2, 3, 4 & 5 inch barrels.
(YES, Colt did make at least a FEW 5" Cobras. - I saw one in a General's patent leather holster in a Latin American country in 1981. = The General had had it plated in heavy 18K gold & YEP, with genuine, engraved Mother of Pearl grips, too. - Evidently, he never met LTG George Patton, Jr.)

yours, sw
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:44 AM   #39
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Questions: with Colt Defense (recently lost M-4 contract) allegedly separate from CPFM, exactly who would make and get the money from civilian AR production? Or is CD military sales only? If so, exactly what are they going to have left, besides foreign sales?

[Customer relations story: back in 1992 or so, we put out feelers for semi-automatic service pistol T&E samples. Colt sent us a .357 revolver with about a 22 lb DA pull. Included was a note that the sample pistol was a specially tuned example and any production guns were likely to have a heavier trigger pull. Since their Double Bird had been such a miserable flop, I guess it was their best fall back, but really?]

The incestuous and tangled skein of corporate entities at/surrounding Colt is likely worthy of another case study. Probably also doesn't help in the struggle to keep CPFM afloat.

BTW, does anyone have a production figure on the Anaconda? I've read about them but never actually seen one.

I may be excessively negative about Colt, but I have vivid memories of talking to the guy in charge of parts sales (mid 1980s) about the defective slides I'd been shipped and him telling me that he wasn't sure he could find anything better to send me. He did make good on all but one. I ended up eating that one-used it to build my own comp gun.

Last edited by William R. Moore; 05-12-2015 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:42 AM   #40
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It's hard to be positive about them right now.

The first model Anaconda is shown as 1000 units and in 1997 they show s/n MM94001-MM99105 just don't know if they were really consecutive
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