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Old 04-16-2011, 07:14 PM   #1
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Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

I've been keeping an eye on the attempts by Colt to re-capture some of the civilian marketplace, a move which I think is long overdue. But a few of their entries have me wondering just what the...???

Am I missing something, or is the management at Colt just not getting it?

I have held one of their stainless 1911's with a beavertail, extended thumb safety and hi-viz sights. It was well put together, very well fit. Slide to frame was amazingly tight, no slop anywhere. Trigger pull was clean and crisp, and retail price was UNDER $1,000. Not by much mind you, but under a grand. Good job, Colt!

Then I see the New Agent. An Officer's Model (or smaller) sized .45...WITH NO SIGHTS. Okay, sorry, they have a "trench style" sight. Folks, I know that style of sighting system has been around for a long time, from Devel I think (The term "guttersnipe" sticks in my head), to AMT's Backups, to some of the "new" ultra small defense pistols. Don't care. STILL don't like'em.

Then I see their "new" double action only 1911...which has wood grips that remind me a whole lot of the old Double Eagle, which if I recollect correctly, died a slow, horrible death on the market place. Oh and they added the double action version to the Agent series...so you have a real tiny double action .45 "1911" with no real usable sights. WHY? I understand they are now selling this gun with Crimson Trace Laser Grips. Not bad, but a set of big dot type sights would still make me feel better.

Colt could make a comeback in this market. It appears they are trying. But I'm not sure if the the product decisions they are making are good ones.

Has Colt got a chance? Or am I misreading the marketplace entirely/
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:17 AM   #2
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

I believe the gutter sight goes back to the Browning 1910, an excellent size for a pistol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_1910

I suspect sights are relatively irrelevant at ranges of feet and not yards. Cross reference my Ruger LCP.

The point defense "body pistol" niche is important right now, economically, with people getting CCWs and spending hard earned money.

Now the reliability of tiny .45s has been a question in the past. I have enough trouble controlling a tiny .380 much less a tiny .45!

Geoff
Who wonders just how good even at two feet some of the .45 Micros are?
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:17 AM   #3
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

Why don't they just dust off the old Model M, up-bore it to 9x19, add a modern side-mounted mag-release and plop on 1911-style sights? I know Bill at C&S did one such conversion aside from the up-chambering, but the Officers Model ain't always the best choice for a "small concealment pistol"...
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:15 PM   #4
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

With the success and popularity of lightweight .38s like the AirLite Smiths and the Ruger LCR, Colt is missing the boat by not bringing out an updated Dick Special, Agent and Cobra.
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:43 PM   #5
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondback
Why don't they just dust off the old Model M, up-bore it to 9x19, add a modern side-mounted mag-release and plop on 1911-style sights? I know Bill at C&S did one such conversion aside from the up-chambering, but the Officers Model ain't always the best choice for a "small concealment pistol"...
A blowback pistol chambered for 9x19mm Para would have to be sized and sprung like the Astra 400/600--anything but a "small concealment pistol".
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:38 PM   #6
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

Point... okay, would 9x18 Makarov as an "in between" work? (Yeah, I don't like it's lack of braod supply-channels either, but I'm looking for something to move it at least from mousegun to ratgun...)
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:37 AM   #7
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

Quote:
Originally Posted by larvatus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondback
Why don't they just dust off the old Model M, up-bore it to 9x19, add a modern side-mounted mag-release and plop on 1911-style sights? I know Bill at C&S did one such conversion aside from the up-chambering, but the Officers Model ain't always the best choice for a "small concealment pistol"...
A blowback pistol chambered for 9x19mm Para would have to be sized and sprung like the Astra 400/600--anything but a "small concealment pistol".
A blowback version of the Colt M1903 in 9x19mm would look a lot like its Belgian cousin, the FN M1903.

It would be better to scale up the Colt Government 380/Mustang or scale down the Colt CCO (a Commander slide mated to an Officers ACP frame). When you boil it down, the C&S M2008 Pocket Model is a CCO variant altered cosmetically to mimic the styling of the M1903.
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:09 PM   #8
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Watters
Quote:
Originally Posted by larvatus
A blowback pistol chambered for 9x19mm Para would have to be sized and sprung like the Astra 400/600--anything but a "small concealment pistol".
A blowback version of the Colt M1903 in 9x19mm would look a lot like its Belgian cousin, the FN M1903.
It would need a much heavier slide and a much stouter recoil spring in view of the ballistic disparity between the 9mm Browning Long and 9x19mm Para.
Quote:
It would be better to scale up the Colt Government 380/Mustang or scale down the Colt CCO (a Commander slide mated to an Officers ACP frame). When you boil it down, the C&S M2008 Pocket Model is a CCO variant altered cosmetically to mimic the styling of the M1903.
Any way you cut it, accommodating the short recoil locked breech mechanism would result in a much taller slide profile.
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:27 AM   #9
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

The 1911 for less that a K is a perfect addition to the modern market. Ye, the smaller Agent does have a pretty solid market in the CCW world. I still have my original Detonics that I carry fairly often.
However I plan to get one of the new pocket 9mm's soon, haven't decided on which although I'm leaning Sig.
Bringing back the Det Spec would be a great move.
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:58 AM   #10
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Re: Colt's "New" Pistols - Good Ideas or WTF

The new Ruger at $795 MSRP it very nice and should have a street price around $700.
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Old 12-11-2014, 11:06 AM   #11
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Does Colt's new "Trench Sight" use the features of the ASP Guttersnipe? Apparently they have a new low-profile sight on a new concealable micro-1911.

Check this puppy out:

Colt New AgentŪ Series
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Old 12-11-2014, 02:59 PM   #12
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Nice...nice price too
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Old 12-12-2014, 08:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Watters View Post
A blowback version of the Colt M1903 in 9x19mm would look a lot like its Belgian cousin, the FN M1903.

It would be better to scale up the Colt Government 380/Mustang or scale down the Colt CCO (a Commander slide mated to an Officers ACP frame). When you boil it down, the C&S M2008 Pocket Model is a CCO variant altered cosmetically to mimic the styling of the M1903.
Mechanically speaking, the Mustang has already been up-sized. First by Astra with the A-70, most recently by Sig with their 938. Design wise, these are essentailly the same gun. Just the Sig has an aluminum frame, slightly smaller slide, and probably built a little better (although I've never seen an Astra A-70 malfunction).






The Colt Government .380/Mustang/Astra/Sig are essentially Browning/Sig uppers placed on an Astra Ruby lower. The lower receiver design goes back over a century.
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Old 12-12-2014, 12:36 PM   #14
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Well, I have some doubts about these:

Colt .380 MustangŪ

I liked the "full size" Mustang, but the one I examined years agone, was an embarrassment to the industry and indeed, industrial standards in the USofA.

Browning is sort of bringing the mid-size .380 back.
http://www.browning.com/products/int...arms/1911-380/

Geoff
Who wants utter, total, unquestionable reliability .... and a back up gun.

Last edited by Skeptic49; 12-12-2014 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Added Browning Link which I had to wait for.
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:09 PM   #15
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Skeptic48,

WOW. = I want one of those in 9x19mm.
(Cannot feature WHY it's in .380ACP.)

yours, sw
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic49 View Post
Well, I have some doubts about these:

Colt .380 MustangŪ

I liked the "full size" Mustang, but the one I examined years agone, was an embarrassment to the industry and indeed, industrial standards in the USofA.

Browning is sort of bringing the mid-size .380 back.
Browning 1911-380

Geoff
Who wants utter, total, unquestionable reliability .... and a back up gun.
NICE! If I didn't have a Sig P 238 I'd want one of those! Stand Watie, don't they make 1911s in 9mm.? I question why it's in .380 but I have never heard of a 1911 in that caliber.
I recently got a Remington R1 1911 in .45ACP so...yea ...I got "the bug."
Is there a cure?
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:22 PM   #17
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There is hope Tommy but the therapy is kinda of expensive....more 1911's...and it's only a temporary solution I fear.
Personally, I wouldn't want a 1911 in anything but 45ACP...just a purest I guess.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:30 PM   #18
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TommyGunn,

YES they once made the GM & Gold Cup in 9x19mm. - But NOT in years & years AND the GM/GC were FULL-size.
(I once had a 9mm GM.)

The new Browning LOOKS smaller/thinner than a GM & thus more concealable.

yours, sw

Last edited by stand watie; 12-12-2014 at 03:31 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:34 PM   #19
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Ratfink2u,

How do you feel about a clone of the 1908 in 9mm Parabellum?

yours, sw
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Old 12-12-2014, 04:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by stand watie View Post
Ratfink2u,

How do you feel about a clone of the 1908 in 9mm Parabellum?

yours, sw
I don't think I've ever seen one....
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