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Old 10-24-2012, 07:11 AM   #1
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Last Stand at Benghazi: "First, Aid the Living."

Some very good points made here.

One interesting aspect not covered a lot is that the defenders, both Americans not on official security duty who picked up weapons as well as some Libyan locals, took to roofs and held off this attack for hours. This bought valuable time for help to arrive.

Why wasn't that help sent?

First, Aid the Living - By Bing West - The Corner - National Review Online
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:40 AM   #2
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The big question is, were the troops in Italy immediatley deployable. Think about how long it took to get rescue rolling in Somalia during the "Blackhawk Down" incident; and they were on the ground in the same city. To go in, you have to have a plan, equipment, and communications...those things don't typically come together in an hour unless there was a solid plan for such prior to the happening.

Now I don't have the highest regard for our current administration, but I can't believe that ANY sitting president wouldn't at least review his options for a response.

I really think there needs to be an independent investigation into this incident.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:56 AM   #3
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Kevin Gibson,

Had we HAD a Marine security detachment, with LOADED WEAPONS & ORDERS to REPEL attacks on our facilities with MASSED GUNFIRE, we wouldn't be in this MESS.====> FAILURE to protect our people/property is BHO's fault.

yours, sw
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:17 AM   #4
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The BIG question is, why did they LIE about it, talking about a "riot" that never happened because of a silly-ass U2be video no one had ever seen or heard of? And they stayed on that baldfaced LIE for over a week.

What are they hiding?
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:06 PM   #5
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They lied because President Obama is incapable of taking criticism or admitting he was wrong about anything. We all know that one lie leads to another and so on ad nauseum. He honestly believes that he is so much smarter than everyone else that no one would figure out the lies. Well, surprise, surprise.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:50 PM   #6
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Snake45; TooTall; All,

I have come to the conclusion that ZERO is "a creature without scruples, principles, common decency or HONOR". = that is WHY i'm working as hard as i can to DEFEAT HIM & every LEFTIST that has supported, cooperated or even compromised with him.

JOIN THE TEA PARTY & HELP US FIX THE MESS.

yours, sw
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake45 View Post
The BIG question is, why did they LIE about it, talking about a "riot" that never happened because of a silly-ass U2be video no one had ever seen or heard of? And they stayed on that baldfaced LIE for over a week.

What are they hiding?

They lied to preserve Obama's meme that he killed Osama and has Al Qaeda on the run. In addition, by painting the attack as the "spontaneous" reaction to an @ssh@t video some shadowy American filmmaker concocted they also get to infer it was "America's fault" which is only icing on the cake in the Obama delicatessen.
AQ is actually on the ascendency in North Africa and Yemen and a few other places in that part of the world but O doesn't want to deal with a "War on Terror" so neither he nor his pusilanimous administration will outright admit the Benghazi Affair was, in fact, a deliberate planned attack by a terrorist cell on 9/11/12 rather than a riot.

Last edited by TommyGunn; 10-24-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:43 PM   #8
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Obama has has been trying to thread a needle between preventing an attack on America or American interest overseas, while at the same time placating his Progressive-Left base.

He's needed to keep Al Qaeda and the other Islamics beaten down, hopefully enough that they'll be too busy ducking or too disorganized to plan and carry out an attack.
His method for that is to wage a bloody drone war to kill as many of the leaders as possible. The Progressives and the Press (but I repeat myself) are quite happy to ignore assassinations by drone in far away places, but won't tolerate questioning captured terrorist about their plans and accomplices.

On the other hand, in order to please his base, he couldn't use the Bush technique of capturing the leaders, interrogating them, discovering what their plans are, who the other players are, and then breaking up entire networks and their support and financial systems.

The effect is, Obama has been killing lots of terrorist, but has no idea about their systems and plans.
While the hated Bush was hated for his horrible questioning and imprisonment of Islamic murderers, Obama can count on the Left ignoring the bloody "collateral damage" of at least nominally innocent bystanders when the drone hits.

The result is Benghazi.
A well planned and carried out attack on an American embassy that seemingly came out of the blue.
Under the Bush system it's likely we would have gotten word it was in the works and managed to break it up before they launched by interrogating captured terrorists.

All this ties in with Obama's inability to admit or allow America to find out just how badly run and how so badly mistaken his foreign policy is, especially the Arab policy.
Bowing and apologizing to religious fanatics only makes them hate you more and respect and fear you less.

All the lies of the last few weeks are an attempt to cover up the botched up, failed policies.
Notice also, that in every Islamic attack on or in America, the Obama administration instinctively claims it's an isolated, unrelated wildcat attack.
It's only later when the facts come out that they finally and reluctantly admit it was a terrorist attack connected to Islamic terror groups.

From the New York bomb plots to the army major who shot up the army base, the first Obama instinct is to claim it isn't what it so plainly is.
This time the cover up just went too far, and as Watergate well proved, it's ALWAYS the cover up, not the original stupidity.

With the active support of the Press, the idea now is to simply run out the clock until after the election.
As always the case with the Obama administration, their one size fits all tactic is "We're investigating and we can't speak while the investigation is on-going".

If he gets re-elected, they can worry about it all later, and you never know, the pig might sing and the Republicans might lose control of the House.
IF not, he'll always has his rabid dog defenders in the committees to delay, obfuscate, and cover for him.

If he looses, he can hope the Republican's will do what they usually do, which is to just drop it all to prevent stepping on their own message.
In any case, he personally won't be held to any accountability, and for Obama, that's ALL that matters. Lesser people can be thrown to the wolves with no regret to The One who will be happily making more millions giving speeches.

In this scandal, Obama's mask has slipped and any who are interested can get a good look at the real Obama.
The statements about "Not optimal results" and "Bumps in the road" are classic glimpses into a narcissistic sociopath.

Last edited by dfariswheel; 10-24-2012 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:38 PM   #9
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There were a/c that could have been overhead in minutes; a couple of FA-18's dispensing cannon fire and rockeyes could have made things problematical for haji and bought some time.

But Hilliary probably couldn't get clearance from Libya and Zero probably couldn't get his balls out of Valerie Jarrett's purse. I think the first call I would have made would have been to scramble those fighters, but then I'm a simulator commando.

The real crime is that the ambassador's primary security was pulled out of country a month prior against his wishes in the name of "normalization". Sixteen SEAL's \ Green Beanies with heavy weapons would have made short work of the attackers.

Somebody needs to, at the very least, resign...
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:57 PM   #10
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I'm with Kevin on the independent investigation thing, though the problem there, especially if President Obama is re-elected, is that the strategy they will use would almost certainly to go after the investigator or investigators in the press a la the whole Lewinsky mess in the Clinton Administration. Many of President Obama's crew are veterans of the Clinton War Room or were influenced by those tactics. An independent investigation is probably the best hope to get to the nut of what was going on though, as so much dust has been kicked up in all the spin cycles out there so far, and Kevin is right that one is needed.

On the motivations for the cover story attempt, TommyGunn may be close to it, though we can't know for sure until the rest of the stuff comes out. Either way it was dumb to be so definite about a bogus story, the whiff of cover up attracts far more attention than saying you are trying to investigate and saying you don't really know for sure yet. I believe they figured they would get a pass from a lot of the press, but what the press has to figure out, if they haven't already, is how bad it made them look when so many of them were drawn into running that story, after it came out that the truth was elsewhere. I still believe that whatever the politics of many reporters, they terribly dislike being made to look like fools.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:59 AM   #11
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Yeah, when this stuff happens, we need to get the politics out of it, and figure out exactly what happened so we can stop bitchinig and work to make sure it will never happen again. If Obama screwed up, if Hillary screwed up, or anyone screwed up; we need to know as voters. The State Department needs to honor the dead by getting to the bottom of things, and ensure our diplomats and their security services are as well protected as can be. And if someone in the administration isn’t to blame, but still tried to cover things up; then fry their arses too.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:06 PM   #12
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Here's how the conversation should have gone betwixt Hilliary and her counterpart in Libya:

H - Hi, Mustapha; you are well I trust?

M - Yah.

H - Good. The kids, wife, goats?

M - Yah.

H - Great.

H - Listen, you remember Chris Stevens? You know, the guy we were using to help facilitate your guys getting all the odds and ends a rebel army needs to overthrow a dictator?

M - Yah.

Well, anyway, he's in a bit of a jam. Apparently, all the folks we hired on your end for security decided to go on break at the same time and now a bunch of random guys have decided to randomly attack him - with RPG's, mortars and stuff.

M - Yah. Sorry, how can we help?

H - Well, we don't need you to do anything, you've done plenty, thanks. I just wanted you to know that we've got a strike package inbound to give Chris some backup; the first pair of FA-18's should over the compound in about, ah, 12 minutes.
So you might want to have your air defense guys power down their hardware, just for safety's sake. We wouldn't want anyone getting hurt.

Thanks, Moosy...
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:53 PM   #13
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I found an article from the Examiner that claims:
Quote:
Last night, it was revealed that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had ordered more security at the U.S. mission in Benghazi before it was attacked where four Americans, including U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens were murdered by Al-Qaeda but President Obama denied the request.
I have to wonder if this explains Secretary Clinton's willingness to take responsibility knowing that this would eventually come out?

In another more troubling article it states that:
Quote:
Fox News has learned from sources who were on the ground in Benghazi that an urgent request from the CIA annex for military back-up during the attack on the U.S. consulate and subsequent attack several hours later on the annex itself was denied by the CIA chain of command -- who also told the CIA operators twice to "stand down" rather than help the ambassador's team when shots were heard at approximately 9:40 p.m. in Benghazi on Sept. 11.
Not just denying assistance but telling them to "stand down" during the attack cries out for answers.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #14
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To ALL

There were at least TWO Spectre GUNSHIPS available NEARBY and at least TWICE they were told to STAND DOWN.
(for us "experienced OFs" of the RVN era, that's a MUCH upgraded PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON.)

JUST SAY NO TO BHO!

yours, sw
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:52 PM   #15
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I was wondering when someone would mention gunships. IIRC, there was a Spectre/Spooky overhead during the BHD event and the AC couldn't get authorization for 'weapons free'. Again, IIRC, the issue there was allegedly concern over collateral damage.

The one area of concern about S/S gunships is their use requires that the AO be free of effective AA. While they do have a system to spoof incoming missiles, it ain't foolproof.

Besides the image protection of the current (mis)administration, wonder if degrading Hillary's political image was also a factor.

BTW, the author of the linked piece neglects to note that we own(ed) (by agreement with the locals or as an act of war) the airspace over Iraq and Afghanistan. At least notionally, the Lybian airspace is that of a soverign foreign nation, who might not have objected to an ultimatum of our use. At least, they might not if the POTUS wasn't excessively worried about offending them. After all, we didn't consult the late Col. Ghadaffi before previously executing strike missions in Lybian airspace.

Possibly I fail to duly appreciate the delicate nuances involved.

Added edit at 0401 local-

I do believe we may have an official scapegoat. The Navy has relieved the commander of the John C. Stennis Strike Group pending investigation of "inappropriate leadership actions" during the recent weeks. Unless he allowed bikinis to be seen on deck (steel beach days) in areas where the indigs could be offended. Alternatively, he could have increased readiness without saying 'mommy, may I'.

Last edited by William R. Moore; 10-28-2012 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:49 AM   #16
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If they are relieving people who wanted to go help, that's insane. It would be killing initiative on the part of field commanders in protecting their people. As we don't know all the stuff yet, I really hope that isn't the case.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William R. Moore View Post

I do believe we may have an official scapegoat. The Navy has relieved the commander of the John C. Stennis Strike Group pending investigation of "inappropriate leadership actions" during the recent weeks. Unless he allowed bikinis to be seen on deck (steel beach days) in areas where the indigs could be offended. Alternatively, he could have increased readiness without saying 'mommy, may I'.
That is a bit of a coincidence, isn't it...

Of interest.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:31 AM   #18
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Remember, NOTHING is beneath the traitors, terrorists and other turdsuckers of Obama's Chicago Gang... particularly his boss, that nefarious heap of crap Valerie Jarrett, who need I remind anyone actually for some reason wanted bin Laden ALIVE and LEFT ALONE to do GOD KNOWS WHAT?

I hope the first words out of President Romney's mouth after being sworn in are ordering his AG to begin a criminal investigation for sedition and High Treason, myself, but that's about as likely as him tapping ME for the job. LOL
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:29 AM   #19
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Interesting: SD admiral removed as head of Stennis strike group | UTSanDiego.com

But the Stennis was in the Persian Gulf, not the Med.

Geoff
Who notes the Navy works in mysterious ways.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:53 PM   #20
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There's also an early change of command in the Africa(n) Command which does cover Lybia. General Ham has been relieved early.

Gee, wasn't there recently an unfortunate explosion in a missile factory in Sudan?

Last edited by William R. Moore; 10-29-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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