Jaeger

I was reading my latest issue of "The Rifle" magazine and found an interesting article about the Canadian Rangers giving up their Lee Enfield rifles come 2015.

The Canadian Rangers, similar to the Alaska Scouts, have been using the Lee Enfield (I assume the Long Branch No 4 Mk I) since 1947. The Canadian Army can no longer support the old Enfields with parts or ammo. While they have not selected a new rifle yet, they state that it will be in 7.62 NATO.

My question to all of you is:

What would you select for the Rangers?

Keep in mind that unlike a conventional military unit, the Rangers keep their rifles at home and often use them for subsitance hunting and survival in the Arctic.

My thoughts? I'd bet that there are more than a few warehouses full of the 7.62X51mm SLRs that used to arm the Canadian Army, but if I had any input, I'd suggest that it be a bolt action carbine in stainless steel with a composite stock and robust sights. No need for a bayonet on the frozen tundra or polar ice sheet, so a sporting style stock would probably be appropos ... something that would sit well on a pack frame or in a sled behind a team of dogs. Of course if I were a Canadian Ranger and I could select my own weapon for the frozen north, it would be my old Pre-64 Model 70 in 30/06 with it's Lyman peep sight.

phantom4570

Sako AII tactical. (After I had it pillar bedded the RSO described it as "Such a boring rifle" after looking through my spotting scope. "It shoots nickle sized groups all day long. Where's the excitement in that?"
Remington 700P (Personally I would have the bolt modified with a Sako style extractor)

Skeptic49

Could this be a market for the Ruger Scout?

Ruger® Gunsite Scout Rifle Models

It comes for port siders too, and has box magazines. Might need a synthetic stock that far north.

Geoff
Who wonders about one of the Savage bolts as well.

PA28R200

My guess is that with all the fal's held in strategic war reserves that they will get the hand me downs just like they did with the #4's.

Snake45

I had the same idea.

t-star

the fals were sent to the blast furnaces long ago- about when we adopted the c7 /m16/whatever- canadian citzens are not allowed to purchase government weapons- THERE ARE NO "STRATEGIC WAR RESERVES"
i know - i live here
moreoever, the fal wastested in the arctic environment and found wanting- it freezes up in the weather, and is UNDEPENDABLE in the extreme- that's why the rangers have no 4s- not b/c they're a second line unit- for that matter so is the m16/whatever

Jaeger

I'm surprised that the FALs went to the furnace. I guess I thought they would have kept them for a war reserve. This is much the same as the destruction of so many M14 rifles here in the States during the Clinton administration. Now we are screaming for them as designated marksman rifles in the infantry.

Without the FAL to fall back on, it makes the question of the new Ranger rifle less academic and more of a relevant question.

I see that Mitchell Mausers is now producing a replica Kar 98 (with interchangable parts) in Yugoslavia at a very reasonable price. One of those in 7.62 NATO with its controlled cartridge feed, massive extractor, 'ell for stout sights, laminated stock and its generally good ballance would not be a bad choice for the Rangers.

I have a Chillean Mauser (Mfgr: Steyer in Austria) that was converted to 7.62 by the Chilleans and it is a very good weapon and one that would not freeze up in the Arctic. While the Mitchell Mausers will probably not be considered, the design did make it through a couple of winters on the "Ostfront" and could probably handle the Arctic quite well.

By the way T-Star, I've shot against your Army's rifle team on a couple of occasions as well as against your British Columbia civilian rifle teams in several matches. It's always fun to rub shoulders with you guys during the matches. My previous unit's sister unit is the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI). We celebrate Menton Day with them every year. They are a great bunch of guys.

t-star

why would you be surprised?- take a look at our gun laws and what's happened since 1978- heck, you can't even HAVE a gun unless you're a target shooter or hunter- self defense- forget about it- the police will there in minutes when you only have seconds- and if you CAN get your gun out of the SAFE( that's right. safe) get the trigger lock off, load it and shoot , they'll CHARGE you with unsafe discharge- and if it's stolen, unsafe storage- remember , canadians live in a MONARCHY, not a republic- we're subjects, not citizens
would that be the calgary ppcli or the edmonton ppcli- that changed back in the 90's as well
but here's a little jab- we CAN have m14s- mof, i got 3 from isreal when they surplussed theirs- we can't shoot them, but we can have them- and chinese ones, ( m305s) and those we CAN shoot

Oddbod

I didn't have a single problem on Arctic Warfare exercises in Norway, nor did anyone else who was on the same exercises for that matter.
The L1A1 would never have entered UK service had it been in any way unreliable under such conditions.

t-star

well, we did- damned rangers would beat us every time with ftfs on the c1s. frozen back, you name it- might have been our lubricants- who know?

Snake45

Really? The MSRP I saw was eye-watering. You could have a new Ruger Gunsite Scout for the same money and take home some pocket change. And I'll bet Ruger would quote them a better "group buy" price than Mitchell would.

stand watie

t-star,

i knew there must be some reason, besides the cold weather, that i don't want to live in Canada. - i wouldn't live ANYPLACE where i cannot be armed against predators, whether 2-legged or 4-legged.

yours, sw

DavidE

Maybe they could get L1A1s from the Brits? If the Brits held on to their stocks that is.

Something Finnish might work, maybe a Valmet or a good Finland bolt action rifle?

Wonder if any of the No. 4s will head south of the border in surplus sales? Amazing rifle, very neat it has held up so long in service.

I suppose they wouldn't go for US Surplus M-1 Garands?

stand watie

DavidE,

i wondered the same. = there are MILLIONS of rebuilt garands out there & the garand worked FINE in the extreme cold of Korea, when lubed with graphite.

yours, sw

Kevin Gibson

I think they’d do well to just modify and update their Enfields; can’t beat them for reliability, and the .303 is no slouch. Synthetic stocks, good optics mounted on a proper side mount would do the trick quite handily. But honestly, THAT’s not going to happen.

I tend to think the best commercial rifle out there these days is the CZ 550 series, which are real Mauser Actions. I think I’d take a CZ 550 in 9.3x73 with a McMillian stock, and Robar NP3 finish. I’d outfit it with a good set of express sights that are fixed and non-adjustable after being properly regulated, and a Leupold 1.5-5x variable scope.

I think any commercial sporting bolt action rifle is going to encounter problems with their trigger groups that are typically sealed, complex, and not very forgiving. I think I’d look for a way to get back to basics on the triggers. You just can’t beat the standard military Mauser trigger for sure fire reliability.

The truly SMART thing would be to build up a rifle like I described with the CZ 550, but instead of using a CZ 550, build it from a military Mauser action. Doing this would avoid the TWO issues you’re likely to encounter with any modern commercial bolt action rifle; triggers, and magazine feed lips. (modern commercial rifles have the feed lips built into the spring steel magazine housing, which is cheap, but somewhat easy to damage. By starting with an older military Mauser, you get feed lips integral to the receiver, and a real Mauser trigger (which CAN be tuned if you know your stuff).

Javlin

Nice rifle! only I wish it had a little longer barrel.I did not stumble on a full length version poking around.

Snake45

Yeah, I'd much rather have another two inches of barrel than that goofy flash hider. Would rather have a flush magazine on it, too.

Javlin

I like the mag Snake even a different suppressor might help but was really thinking accuracy and velocities for barrel length.But it is a carbine setup so......

shep854

For a "scout", I'd far rather have a fixed magazine (10-rd with charger guide is dandy). Very few detachable-magazine rifles are easy to load single-shot when the box gets lost or stepped on...

t-star

you've got to remember that a good portion of the rangers are inuit, and tend to use their rifles for "other things" rather than just being a rifle- they don't hold the same "reverance" for a shooting iron we do- it's a tool, and when used for those other things , ( like a crow bar or a paddle for a canoe) it sometimes suffers- the most prevelant gun up there aside from the government issued no 4 for the rangers is the 30/30 winchester 94- that they got from great grandfather and still shoots
our government knows this and that's why you won't see a semi-automatic up there- there's a neat little red rifle that's used by the sartecs that would be ideal and it's already in the toe