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Old 04-14-2005, 10:58 AM   #1
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Evaluators Ltd, FFL for FBI

Dear collective Wisdom;
The captioned business was, as I recall, the FFL/gun dealer set up for the sole purpose of firearms transfers and getting the cop price on gear for the FBI agents at Quantico, VA.

I think it started in the 1950s.

What I'm looking for are more details. For example I believe that T. Frank Baughman FBI instructor(of S&W front sight fame) was connected with this entity. (By the way I don't think he was ever an Agent.)

Anyone have any input?
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Old 04-14-2005, 11:33 AM   #2
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Apparently they were in the gun leather business, too. I have an old holster, probably of early 70's vintage, that is stamped on the back:
EVALUATORS
QUANTICO, VA.
FBI QUICK DRAW
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Old 04-14-2005, 01:14 PM   #3
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That's the Baughman Quick Draw Holster which was well known back then.

Sorry Walt I can't add anything. Know the name (s) but no history.

Funny though, last time I was up there a couple of the agents were griping that because of VA law they couldn't buy but one gun a month.

Also one told the story of flying somewhere on business and the TSA had no trouble with his gun but took his pocketknife...
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:06 PM   #4
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What I need is someone more computer literate than me to deep search the INTERNET-something past the Goggle, Yahoo, MSM level.

I failed to mention in my original post that I am now the owner of a Burns-Martin holster, belt, and 12 round cartridge carrier all marked with the subject name.(A S&W Model 10, 4" heavy barrel is a snug fit.)

If anyone has and wants to sell a Burns-Martin for a N frame 3.5" Model 27, I'm interested.

(Nostalgia!)
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:24 PM   #5
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Re: Evaluators Ltd, FFL for FBI

*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Walt
…the FFL/gun dealer set up for the sole purpose of firearms transfers and getting the cop price on gear for the FBI agents at Quantico, VA.

I think it started in the 1950s.
Would this have been necessary prior to GCA'68?
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Old 04-14-2005, 03:28 PM   #6
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As I recall, when I was buying guns in the late 50s, gun manufacturers would not sell direct unlike dealers who did do so via US mail and REA(anyone remember this last shipper?).
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Old 04-14-2005, 03:55 PM   #7
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Um, Railway Express, yes?
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Old 04-14-2005, 04:36 PM   #8
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Rght! Railway Express Agency
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Rauch
What I need is someone more computer literate than me to deep search the INTERNET-something past the Goggle, Yahoo, MSM level.
Walt, as Dean will confirm for you, I find it hard to pass up a good research challenge. This one took me about 10 minutes. Here's what I found.

D&B reports that there is an Evaluators Ltd. located at 18425 Woodland Dr, Triangle, VA 22172-1317 (Prince William County). Telephone:703-221-4303. The business description SIC code is "Wholesale professional equipment" and Secondary SIC is "Retail sporting goods/bicycles." One "F. Van Orden" is listed as president.

Digging further and doing some cross-checking revealed that there is also a "3P Evaluators" located at 15289 Bowmans Folly Dr., Manassas, VA 20112. D&B's data source is listed as "DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY - TAX EXEMPT." Their SIC is "Law Enforcement Equipment and Supplies" and -- surprise -- the president is F. Van Orden.

With this information I ran some web searches and came up totally empty, which leads me to believe that they have no web presence. Of course, this would be consistent with the type of operation you describe.

Walt, you should be able to follow-up with the contact information above and make further inquiries.
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:21 AM   #10
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That's my Consigliore!

Excellent work, Rob!
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:54 AM   #11
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Damn! This is good stuff!. Thanks.
This fits in as follows;

I'm now in contact with one retired FBI type who had just told me, before reading your post, that indeed it was/is the one in Triangle. It was operated by a former US Marine who died and his wife then continued the business. He said he's have to dig for more details. I then coped and mailed him your work.

Re web searching, I understand there's "deep web" that is 2/3rds larger than what we mere mortals search via goggle. I had information on how to get into texts, libraries etc but have misplaced it.

Anyone?

A
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Old 04-15-2005, 12:45 PM   #12
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Walt I reached out to a retired agent from Quanitco who has no knowledge of the company so they predate the early 70s.

FBI policy under Hoover was not "gun friendly" and agents were allowed to carry only what was issued. After his term expired a personally owned weapons program was approved which allowed agents to carry their own guns if they were on the list. But even prior to GCA 68 they bought guns just like everyone else. That would certainly seem to favor the idea of a dealer who "specialized" in selling stuff to agents.

The Berns Martin holsters were really cool and the upside down model from Safariland that was in "Bullitt" was a copy of one of theirs. You might want to check with Tom Marx on their history.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:41 PM   #13
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thanks Charles;

This helps narrow down the time frame.
I too have the retired guy(they, collectively, don't appear to know much of the old time history?) but I'll now work the phones.

(This sort of research fascinates me. I'll have to tell you all about my autographed booklet titled Practical [/i]Pistoleering by Barry Storm circa 1943.

google search on him gets interesting.
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Rauch

Re web searching, I understand there's "deep web" that is 2/3rds larger than what we mere mortals search via goggle. I had information on how to get into texts, libraries etc but have misplaced it.

Anyone?

A
Walt, check you PM's. Let me know if the links don't work.

Ed
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