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Old 12-21-2013, 06:37 PM   #1
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Dot optics

Awhile back I purchased a new red dot optical sight, of of the latest & greatest midrange product of a major manufacturer. They threw in a mount and it's night vision compatable-not that I needed that feature. Price was very good.

OK, learning experience. If the sight is NVC, you've lost some switch positions to settings you can't see with the naked eye. I actually can see the highest NVC setting (position 4) with the unaided eye in dim light. This would be equal to position 1 in a non NVC sight. This means the daylight settings will be squeezed into fewer intensity choices. Your intensity setting choices may be too dim and brighter than necssary for the lighting conditions. This might not be important in a real world life & death setting, can be a major pain in the butt in less strenuous circumstances. I have to note that top of line products seem to have vastly increased intensity options.

Short form: if you don't have NV gear, you don't need sights that work with it. Even if the CDI factor is off the charts and the price is good.

BTW, anyone have any idea exactly how they determine the alleged size of the dots? What you see in the real world doesn't necessarily agree with theory/specs. Also: do the diodes 'burn in' with a little bit of run time and get a little less harsh? Been 30 odd years since my last new red dot.

Last edited by William R. Moore; 12-21-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:40 PM   #2
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Agree about the night vision settings

I think dot size is determined by a ouija board or my idea of moa is different.

I haven't noticed any significant change in intensity with age as long as batteries are good.

I've been working with a couple of the compact models from Leupold and Trijicon. I use the apex of the triangle on the Delta point for point of aim and that works pretty well. The latest is a 1 MOA from Trijicon that is -as Dean would say, "the cat's pj-s"

Right now I'm working with a couple on 1911s and have a couple of tube sights that bounce around among ARs but an elderly Aimpoint is standard on my primary AR.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:57 PM   #3
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OK, went out into the dark and I can actually see dots on settings 3 & 4 (top 2 NV settings) while still being able to ID targets. Might be able to do more after I dark adapt, but not bothering with NV compatibility is still a good idea if'n you don't have NV gear.

Also going to work this thing with glasses without photo adaptive coatings to see if there's a difference. Hadn't really considered that until a co-worker commented that the difference in our setting might be due to his having younger eyes-although that's also a valid issue.

Doing some reading on the maker's website, I get a sneaking suspicion they made the dot as small as possible while still reliably looking round to most of us. Then they slapped a label on it. Will try again without high tech lens coatings.

Last edited by William R. Moore; 12-22-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:54 AM   #4
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The Vortex I just got has a NV setting, and sure as shootin' (pardon me) you can see a very faint dot in dim light on the NV setting. And I can even change the color from red to green just like the regular setting. Oh Boy!!

Only got the NV because it came with the package...I really have no intention in investing in any NV gear.

The only other red dot I have played with is an Aimpoint that I access to through work. Haven't worked with my Vortex yet to give any reasonably thorough comparison.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:41 PM   #5
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This got me digging and my old Aimpoint Comp M is 4 moa. I've also got a Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T that I like don't know the dot size, but it is pretty small.

Am I correct in assuming it is for an AR? I've got a couple of pistol red dots with misc dot sizes but all of them are pretty small at lower settings.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:11 PM   #6
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Yeah, it's bolted to an AR flat top. This morning using specs with no photo adaptive coatings, the right back ground & light, I could use a power setting that had the dot real close to 2 MOA. However, it wouldn't be my choice of power setting for fast pickup in a serious situation.

It's pretty much going to do what I want it to, guess I'll quite obsessing about it. Think I now know why a bunch of the HSLD highly ranked competitors use some form of variable scope.

Merry Christmas one and all.
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:03 PM   #7
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I've seen some of those guys with a conventional scope with an offset mount for a compact red dot. They turn the gun to one side to use it. Strikes me as weird.

One of the reasons I like the Leupold CQ/T is that it has a permanent reticle with a big circle and a small dot in the middle. It's there all the time and you don't have to turn it on to see it. Also it is a 1-3X. I've had good results out to 300 yd. and you don't have to hunt for the dot if it doesn't come up just right.

Merry Christmas to all
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Old 12-25-2013, 06:22 AM   #8
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Yeah, but boy do they keep manufacturers busy and wanna-bes broke.

All my scoped rifles wear Leupold. I haven't looked through the CQ/T since it's way outside my price range. I don't know if it's just onrushing codgerhood, but their prices seem outrageous lately. On the other hand, Schmidt & Bender make them look downright cheap.
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:08 PM   #9
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Well, if you're only rushing to… I'm there now.

I agree that Leupold's prices seem to be getting higher but they are still well below Swarovski and Zeiss. To me the Leupold image quality has really improved and while it still doesn't match the European stuff I'm not sure the difference in quality is enough to justify the difference in price.
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