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Old 12-10-2006, 05:14 AM   #1
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What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

While we still have the second generation of gun writers (and former gun writers) available, I'd like to know about Mr. Gaylord. I've read his book, both as a youth and after my wife gave me a copy found in a used bookshop for Christmas awhile back. I remember one article he wrote for the old "Guns" or "Guns and Hunting" magazine about barrel length on power and velocity in a .38 Special. The picture of the test guns ran from a Model 27 with an 8 3/8" barrel, down to a snub nose Chief's Special Model 36, with every barrel length S&W stocked in between. That arsenal was impressive to an innocent young boy who was shooting BBs in the garage.

I remember the conclusion of the article was a duty .38 Special should have a 5" barrel and a CC weapon 3", with a Chief's Special, Fitz gunfighter grips and a trigger shoe, recommended as minimum.

Geoff
Who suspects he has Chick Gaylords disease, Type 2 diabetes, unfortunately.
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Old 12-10-2006, 05:30 AM   #2
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Don't have the answer to your question but as a fellow Gaylord fan, I relish any opportunity to jump into a discussion about him. I too read his book many times as a youth (from the local library) and about a decade or so ago was able to procure a copy of my own.

I love his "Metropolitan Special." Colt Police Positive (D-frame), 3" barrel, butt rounded, Tyler T-grip, action smoothed, and improved sights. I don't agree with his choice of a trigger shoe on the little monster, but otherwise, even today, 40+ years later, it would be difficult to come up with a daily carry revolver that would be much of an improvement on this in any real way. I hope to someday build my own.
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Old 12-16-2006, 04:22 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake45
I love his "Metropolitan Special." Colt Police Positive (D-frame), 3" barrel, butt rounded, Tyler T-grip, action smoothed, and improved sights.
Snake,
Did you note, the last Revolvers approved by NYPD were 3" barrel S&Ws and Rugers?

Geoff
Who notes that's either good analysis or following old tradition.
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:54 PM   #4
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Quote:
Did you note, the last Revolvers approved by NYPD were 3" barrel S&Ws and Rugers?
I'm sure that Gaylord had an influence on the NYPD. Presumably, Frank McGee, a former commander of the Firearms and Tactics Training Unit, was partial to the three-inch S&W Model 36 and I believe it was NYPD that got S&W to offer that revolver in a heavy-barrel configuration.

As to the late approval of the three-inch, six-shot guns, that was reportedly the result of a test done with recruits, in which a significant difference in "qualification" scores was noted between two-inch and four-inch guns but not between three-inch and four-inch guns. Since approximately half of NYPD's OIS's were occurring off-duty or in plain clothes, it was felt that by encouraging the choice of a three-inch gun, the officers would carry the same gun on and off duty (or in plain clothes).
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:49 AM   #5
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

So, then, it would appear that NYPD agreed with Gaylord's research.

Actually, Gaylord wasn't the Second Generation of gun writer. There have been gun writers since the 14th century. They had a different audience, and media, but these scribes described the then-current generation of weaponry. Gun magazines, as such, have existed since the late 1800's, as Sporting Magazines, or Men's Magazines. Some of the earlier generation of writers were Civil War veterans.
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Old 12-21-2008, 05:50 AM   #6
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR
So, then, it would appear that NYPD agreed with Gaylord's research.

Actually, Gaylord wasn't the Second Generation of gun writer.
Very true, but I was counting Gaylord as first generation, as he was working in my first 20 years of life. Unfortunately he died young. The gun writers who knew him are starting to die out.

Now I can argue a fourth generation of Internet Gun Writers is being created, even as we text, and a few men of greatness have embraced several generations. Dean you feelin' OK in all that cold weather??

Geoff
Who has been reading gun books and magazines for a long time.
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Old 12-21-2008, 06:45 AM   #7
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

When I first started read gun rags, the "big names" were Cooper, Skelton, Keith, Nonte, Askins, Lachuck, Sundra, and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment. Shortly thereafter Ayoob, Jordan, Milek, Libourel, Chuck Taylor, Capstick, Seyfried, and others came aboard. Later still were Dean, Duane Thomas, Wiley Clapp, Chuck Karwan, etc.

Of the current crop, my favorites are Ayoob, Patrick Sweeney, Charlie, Connor about half the time, and Clint Smith. A great many of today's gunwriters I find to be virtually interchangable as far as style and content go.
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:04 AM   #8
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Some guy named Petty is pretty good too, for a young guy.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:17 AM   #9
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake45
When I first started read gun rags, the "big names" were Cooper, Skelton, Keith, Nonte, Askins, Lachuck, Sundra, and maybe a couple others I'm forgetting at the moment. Shortly thereafter Ayoob, Jordan, Milek, Libourel, Chuck Taylor, Capstick, Seyfried, and others came aboard. Later still were Dean, Duane Thomas, Wiley Clapp, Chuck Karwan, etc.
Either you started reading late or I'm older than I feel. You've never read Jack O'Conner Warren Page, John Kingsley-Heath,........never mind, this is getting depressing. I can recall showing a mouthy little ass to the door to a shop I was working in, only to learn later it was Sundra.

To get back to Gaylord, a college professor "borrowed" my original copy of his book lo, 40+ years ago and I haven't seen another. IIRC, his conclusions on barrel length were that anything longer than 3 inches on a 38 was a waste and 4 inches was about right for a .357 Magnum. He did make a most logical point about longer barrels actually helping to force the weapon in against the body instead of letting it sag outward from the belt.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:39 AM   #10
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William R. Moore
Either you started reading late or I'm older than I feel. You've never read Jack O'Conner Warren Page, John Kingsley-Heath,........never mind, this is getting depressing.
I started around 1970 or so, and really got into it in the early '70s. I have read some Jack O'Connor. He did the rifle section of one of my favorite books (Jeff Cooper did the pistol section), and that 1966 book still has a lot of great information in it.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:32 AM   #11
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Gaylord's book has been reprinted and is available from Paladin Press.

Personally, the two main thngs I got from it were the appreciation of how many of today's concealment-holster designs trace their origin to him and the comment about use of grip-strengthening exercises increasing the speed fo the draw.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:47 AM   #12
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake45
I started around 1970 or so, and really got into it in the early '70s. I have read some Jack O'Connor.
Thank you ever so much for that......"Nurse, fetch my cane!" Actually, The Complete Book of Shooting(?) was the first time I ever heard of Cooper-that I can recall.

I don't read gun pulp anymore. Got too tired of the recycled articles on the SOS. The older guys had more breadth to their writing and didn't take themselves as seriously as the later crop -in my jaundiced opinion. One thing about being an FROG in the firearms trade is periodically seeing some of the same old discredited stuff coming back again and again with new "justifications" 'cause someone wants to be recognized for something.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:20 PM   #13
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William R. Moore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake45
I started around 1970 or so, and really got into it in the early '70s. I have read some Jack O'Connor.
Thank you ever so much for that......"Nurse, fetch my cane!" Actually, The Complete Book of Shooting(?) was the first time I ever heard of Cooper-that I can recall.

I went through a rifle-shooting phase in my teen years (circa 1970) and had a copy of The Complete Book of Shooting. That was my first exposure to Col. Cooper and "John Browning's Magnificent Masterpiece".

RE: 3" S&W's: Wasn't the M-13 the FBI standard for a while? Was Gaylord and NYPD involved there?
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:18 PM   #14
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Chick Gaylord
Sgt. Thomas Loughnan USAF
Jack Spaatz NYSP
Jess Dodge

'They were fast,fast on the draw'. Wonder where they are now? Got that book from my sister one Christmas, be damned if I can find it now.

Don't forget John Wooters & Neal Knox.

And if you wan't to back a ways further,,,Phil Sharpe & Nash Buckingham.

(I gotta look for that book again)
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:53 AM   #15
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Re: What is the real story on Chick Gaylord?

Some of my first gunwriters I recall are,
Bill Jordan
Elmer Keith
Jeff Cooper
Jack O'Connor
Skeeter Skelton
Grits Gresham
Later I really got into everything Capstick wrote and all the great African hunters. None of their like is seen today but I do enjoy a few.
Bart Skelton
Connor
Clint Smith
Ayoob
Garry James
Tom Gresham
Phil Spangenberger

Yes I have to admit I still love the gunzines even with all their problems! I can't help myself!
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