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Old 09-07-2007, 10:57 AM   #1
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Now I'm terrified of everything I've ever posted

This scares the bejazus out of me.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/637859.html

I came across this on another forum. Essentially speaking, admitting on the internet you possess/or have possessed firearms, is a death sentence for anyone who knows you.

I do not understand why the police would try to arrest someone they assumed was in possession of an AR type weapon, in their home, in the middle of the night.

Nor do I understand why a grand jury could call this justifiable.

Geoff
Who is now terrified of all LEOs.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:01 PM   #2
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That is completely absurd. Why were they bashing the freaking door in over a possibly stolen PS3 in the first place? Repairing the door would cost almost as much as the PS3 if they are wrong plus all of the risks = stupid. I am not sure the officer should be criminally charged but he certainly should be relived of his position.

It is funny to watch the SWAT type shows with all of the cops in the van acting like they are going to war and then they get in the house and there is on guy watching TV in his underwear. I am sure there are times when the full on assault is warranted but I think there are plenty of times when a lower key approach would work. A college student suspected of stealing a PS3 for example.
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:32 AM   #3
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We have an article in the MSM here. How many of you really believe that the article is 100% accurate?

My suggestion is that a little research be done prior to passing judgment. The entire thing is just a little too perfect to be entirely true. Remember the Rodney King tape, and the fact that, after reviewing the tape, the jury acquitted the officers. Ever see the whole tape on the MSM?

The officer, without doubt, acted against policy and SOP by opening fire through a door. The load-out was actually pretty standard, so should be ignored. It was just there to high-light the "degree of armament" that he possessed.

SWAT Teams are expensive to form, train, and maintain. They are subject to the same "creeping mission tasking" of the military elites. To the Administration of the department, they represent a little-used resource. Accordingly, their tasking is "redefined" to make them available more and more. Nobody said that the administrators of most police departments were bright, or ever even line-cops.
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:47 AM   #4
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More data, still MSM though.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236140,00.html

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_ ... trickland/

Geoff
Who is still terrified.
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:10 AM   #5
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If you are terrified of swat teams busting down your door stop all illegal activities and get rid of any evidence there of.

If you are concerned about what you post online refer to the warnings associated with this website about the guys who posted pictures of out of season deer they took.

If th officers had gone to the house and gotten shot by these guys and later the media pulled up the facebook account and showed the "dangerous thugs" to the world you and I would wonder why they didn't Google the bad guys themselves, before getting shot.

This is is a tragedy, yes but it isn't what the MSM purports it to be.
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Old 09-10-2007, 05:18 AM   #6
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The victim was robbed = violent felony. You don't want your door kicked in? Don't commit violent felonies. They didn't break into someones car to steal this thing, they robbed another person, fuck em they got what they derserved.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remington
The victim was robbed = violent felony. You don't want your door kicked in? Don't commit violent felonies. They didn't break into someones car to steal this thing, they robbed another person, f*** em they got what they derserved.
I have no intention of committing a violent felony. But, to have the SWAT team sent in on a third party "known associate" because another known associate was pictured on the web with alledged "assault weapons" doesn't make any sense to me. I can be considered a "Known Associate" of everyone on four special interest forums, and five blogs.

I cannot comprehend why the police conducted an armed raid in the middle of the night, which would have given the suspected violent fellon a chance to react, rather than over whelming him on the street where the alledged felon couldn't have a rifle concealed.

Since I am the only person in FL with my slightly uncommon name listed in the phone directory I get bills sent blind by companies who THINK someone with a similar name (different spelling) might be me.

This terriefies me. I'm now afraid to have a listed phone number.

Geoff
Who notes this is not the US of A I grew up in.
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:48 AM   #8
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Now, that last statement there? That comes from a powerful realization. Go with that, and you'll be just fine. Philippians 4:11-13 is very helpful, too, but you probably know that already.
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:47 AM   #9
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Next time two thugs rob someone we'll track em down, give them a pat on the back and a hug and let them know what they did was very very bad and smack their wrist saying no no no, bad boys.

ALL search warrants police are armed.
You don't think a wepon can be concealed on the street? I guess the sawed off shotgun a AK underfolder, Tec 9 and multiple pistols, knives, knuckles, chucks ect I've taken off of suspects couldn't be concealed either.


Don't want your door kick in? Don't commit violent felonies.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:30 PM   #10
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It kills me how some of those who most vehemently maintain - "don't break the law and everything's gonna be alright" / "If you have nothing to hide why worry" - optimists - have often failed to insert their . . . even immediate locale in their profile

Not just here, but in other forums where issues, such as this come up.

Rob - who owns nothing of the sort of an M4 . . . who happens to concur w/ Geoff . . . . This (America) is a different place ! Some are not quite as optimistic as others ! and who asks . . . what are you gonna say when grandfather laws get purged ? (food for thought)

My pessimism is my friend . . . my protection mechanism . . . question that authority . . . while you still can !
Power Corrupts . . . People ! Err on the side of [s]caution[/s] your rights !

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Old 09-10-2007, 02:43 PM   #11
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Oh, c'mon. They had it coming.

And the next time someone gets pulled over for a speeding ticket, and the plate number of the car (which just HAPPENS to be loaned to someone else - the current driver isn't who it's registered to) JUST HAPPENS to come up (in a registration state like the PRK) on the computer as the licensed owner of an AR15.....

Just run the submachinegun through the door of their car. Better a dead citizen that's an associate of a firearms owner than the potential of a dead cop.

After all, they violated the law by speeding, and therefore had it coming.

The real problem is that when you've got funding for a really expensive hammer, you've got to show a purpose for the hammer. Even if it means banging in a door -with the attendant risk to life on both ends of it- for a PS3.

I know some SWAT cops, and I'm signed up for an upcoming basic SWAT course. The real-deal guys on the pointy end don't strike me as the fellows that would even entertain the notion of this kind of BS.

Oh, and a large part of basic SWAT is all legalese - just what are the ROE for shooting through a door? Silly me.... I thought it was IDENTIFY before QUALIFY. Must be something different for a paramilitarized organization........

Yup, amirika isn't what she used to be. Get used to it.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:24 AM   #12
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Well blue steel since I use My real name and not some silly nickname My locale was not included, However as this was the first board I joined and not knowing any better when I did my EXACT CITY AND STATE were listed I believe someone from the staff removed it as I did not. They realising that I was using my real name decided to protect me? I don't know but seeing as how my name is not that common I suspect I would be easy to find.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:13 PM   #13
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First, I would be very slow to say the kid had it coming. Right now the charge is unproven and we don't know how the suspects were identified. Also, while a mugging as described is justification for use of lethal force in self-defense, it is not a capital crime. Remember that this fear of what you say on the net being used against you is very real. For example: http://www.kptv.com/news/14065232/detail.html

Second, for a grand jury to return a bill as untrue says a lot. I was foreman on a grand jury a few years ago and the way it works (at least in the state of Oregon) is that the prosecution presents their evidence without any evidence or testimony provided by the defense. The accused can volunteer testify but this rare. If the grand jury fails to return an indictment under those circumstances, the prosecution's case is weak. Unless the DA was in cahoots with the cops, I'd say this is being overblown by the MSM.
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Old 09-29-2007, 10:21 PM   #14
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Any time something goes bad it's usually as a result of a multitude of events or errors. Usually one side to blame, sometimes there's blame to go around.

One person's fun loving innocent "child" or "youngster" (favorite liberal media descriptions) who just likes to goof around with guns is another's neighborhood terrorizing, gun wielding thug with no regard for law and no respect for fellow citizens. Crips, Bloods and Gangster Disciples are just a bunch of youngsters who like to have fun posing with guns and act like tough guys in photos. They might steal things now and then but that's no reason to point guns at these upcoming citizens and treat them like dangerous criminals.

Maybe you've heard the saying a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. Well, that's not much of an exaggeration. If the grand jury in this case returned a no bill then the case against the officer must be REALLY weak or non-existant.

I've been on a number gunboards over the past 15 years. It has never failed to amaze me that some gunowners, who have such problems with media inaccuracy of gun issues, suddenly lap up every word as gospel truth from the same media when they spew out anything that feeds into their anti-law enforcement, anti-govt fantasies or delusions.
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:09 AM   #15
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How did the cop know it was the kid standing behind the door and not his mother, sister, girl friend, or simply someone else? He should have at least lost his job. Remember Ruby Ridge. If you can't identify the target, don't shoot.
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Old 11-20-2007, 05:44 PM   #16
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The problem with Ruby Ridge is the sniper id'd the target and shot her anyway.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:17 PM   #17
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Shooting into a dwelling because you thought you heard a gunshot, when there are obviously other officers around the dwelling, at the very least doesn't sound too wise, and possibly a major violation of procedure. The guys I was working with, in the absence of an identifiable target, would sing out on the radio after eating some dirt.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:25 AM   #18
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johnny .308,

WELL SAID! (one of the reasons that i survived 3 decades of LE is that, after my rookie year at least, i took my time & tried hard not to make "stupid mistakes".)

hardly ANY warrant cannot wait till daylight to be served. night-time raids are NEEDLESSLY dangerous under the best of circumstances for everybody, including the officers involved.

during my years behind the badge, i knew personally of SEVERAL (maybe 10) search/arrest warrants that were wrongly issued either for the wrong person and/or for the wrong location.
NOT being "bold" frequently saves lives/property/your "toucas".

in one of those situations, the warrant read 9009 South Winding Rose Ave.
the REAL address was 9009 South Winding Rose WAY! (and YES, i REMEMBER the address & most all of the details, after a 1/4 of a century. afterwards, i was "scared spitless" by what NEARLY happened.)

the STOP team,who called themselves "the ninjas", broke the door in and came close to shooting an INNOCENT lady (who thought it was BURGLARS breaking in & had a .32ACP Colt in-hand!) and her "babe in arms"!!!
(if you did that, could you EVER live with yourself, thereafter?)

things at 3AM are FREQUENTLY not what they seem, especially when you have about 3 gallons of adrenaline rushing through your veins.

be careful out there,sw
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:58 PM   #19
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Re: Now I'm terrified of everything I've ever posted

I have a retired policeman in the familey, So I support the men in blue but we need to reain in our police in this country before they start kicking in doors for parking tickets. what happend to knocking on the door to serve a warrent? granted in some cases like drugs and known fellons fine .We even have them tazing people for not complying with orders to sit down. I thought the tazer was supose to be for less than leathel force like if he has a bord or knife and wont put it down Insted of SHOOTING himyou taze him. not sir sit down sir sit down please NO ok TAZE TAZE.........heart attack given you should do as told when told by an officer but Non compliance to sit should not be met with almostdeadly force .and before some of you think Im going soft I think we ought to shoot people who run from police in cars. The life they save by taking that butthead out might be mine.
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Old 03-07-2008, 08:22 AM   #20
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Re: Now I'm terrified of everything I've ever posted

pancolt,

i second the motion. in my home state the well-known "Rules of Engagement" are that we:
a. shoot burglars after dark,
b. shoot fleeing felons
&
c. shoot criminals, who attack police.

as a consequence, FEW criminals do any any of the 3.

be careful out there,sw
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