GCB

I am looking for a gas rod uppper for my M4. I don't think H&K will offer theirs to the civillian market, but I understand there are others.

Does anybody know who makes these gas rod/gas trap uppers for AR's? I love the AR platform, but am tired of cleaning the damn things.

Thanks,

GCB

delloro

pick up a copy of shotgun news, there are a couple in there.

Cap'n Dex

I find the cleaning process isn't so bad. I mean, its not the most fun you'll ever have, but its not like its real difficult. I did make the stupid mistake of buying cleaning patches that are .17-.22 calibre, and find I have to double them up to get good results. I can't wait till I'm out of those pieces of crap so I can get some better ones.

a gas piston, huh? Like an SKS, or AK or something? it doesn't sound like a bad idea. the simonov/kalashnikov action certainly is a reliable one. I'd be interested to see how that works. But doesn't that basically undo the virtue of the gas pipe action thing? *ie AR's are more accurate than AK's because they don't have that moving piston* It doesn't sound like a bad idea though.

MYgarand

I have spent long nights with the boys debating that one. daytime engineers turn into arm chair physicists.

I tend to agree that the pressure curve imparts less raw recoil to the equation than the mechanical motion (of a piston), but I say that the ability of the stock (or at least the bedding point) to soak up recoil is just as important. the more stable you are until that bullet leaves the muzzle, the truer your shot must be.

GCB

That's why I was interested in the HK M4 design. It removed the problem of gas blowback without adversely affecting the accuracy. HK also said it could go 20K rounds without cleaning. Granted, I would never do such a thing, but it is nice to have such a clean shooting rifle to fire. Unfortunately, I don't think HK will ever offer it to the civillian market.

Cap'n Dex

I bet that would some kind of suck to clean a rifle that hasn't been cleaned for 20k rds! hahaha. My Bushy isn't exactly a cake-walk to clean after say, 120rds. It would be a cool thing to have though, the HK upper. I understand they stopped importing long guns because they weren't selling, or something. it might have something to do w/ the obscenely high prices. At what point do you stop paying for the rifle, and start paying for the name, ya know? I guess that's true of everything though, to some extent. generic vs. brand name, I guess. it would still be cool to have an HK, but its probably cheaper/easier to get something else piston opperated

the one thing I don't like is feeding those big long pipe cleaners that always bend off before going all the way down the gas pipe. its basically a pain. I can see why the piston opperated upper would have an advantage over the gas pipe system. Who knows, maybe the military will just swap out uppers instead of getting new matel toys inc. XM8s

Bravo762

I played with the HK upper. I like it. I'd buy one.

Osborne at HK USA says they have no intention of selling to the general public here in the states. This statement countered the one that I received from an HK rep with a definate German accent a year prior.

I did think it odd though that they did away with the dust cover. The claim is that they don't need it with the redesigned carrier.

olds442tyguy

I could be wrong, but wasn't ZM Weapons the first ones to sell gas piston AR's in large amounts to the public? I know Leitner Wise, DSA, and POF USA are making them. Here's a link to the POF AR and it's extremely cool looking fluted M4 barrel.

POF's site.
http://www.pof-usa.com/AR15/AR416upper.htm

Heres Leitener Wises site.
http://www.leitner-wise.com/

And here's ZM Weapons site.
http://zmweapons.com/index.htm

Bravo762

GCB, I got to thinking about your statement. If you want AR ergonomics, but a piston driven carrier, why not look at the Robinson XCR?

I've got one on order. Most of the AR goodies bolt right on the XCR.

The bolt / carrier / piston is an interesting development. The carrier had driving bands on it, fore and aft, unlike the AR. That's a bonus right there for reliability. The piston kind of keyed into the carrier, and is VERY similar to that of a Kalashnikov.

I just got an update as of today on the bolt design (something that was hush-hush until now). I understand what they did. Should be robust, reliable, and accurate, as it turned out to be an accidental adaptation of a proven design.

So far, I've been really impressed with the quality of build and ingenuity of this design. It handles well, and is well thought out. I haven't got to do live fire though, just play with it to date.

Live fire is coming soon though, special delivery. It's good to have friends

The only thing ergonomically that isn't "AR like" is the bolt release. It's done with the trigger finger, above the trigger. Mag release is in the same area, safety is in the same area, with a mild optional fee for ambi controls on both.

FWIW

Daniel Watters

FWIW: The ZM LR300 uses a modified version of the standard AR15/M16 gas system, not a gas piston. The carrier key is merely longer and the gas tube correspondingly shorter. They meet under the upper handguard instead of inside the upper receiver.

GCB

olds442tyguy

Thanks for the links!

The one I was looking at is:

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?I ... Cupper.gif



Bravo762

I will check out the Robinson. Thanks again.

raskolnikov_22

Second.