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Old 05-07-2016, 10:26 AM   #1
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American-Made Steel Cased Ammo

First time I had heard of this:

Steel-Case Ammo Made in USA: Winchester's USA Forged - AllOutdoor.com

<http://www.alloutdoor.com/2016/05/02/steel-case-ammo-made-usa-winchesters-usa-forged/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_conten t=2016-05-07&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter>

The "sooty chamber" comment posted (Which is what the author heard from someone, and thus must be subject to the Dean Speir "Gun store guy" rule by my reading at this point) would track with some experience with Russian steel cased ammo if confirmed.

Anyone had experience with this ammo yet?
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Old 05-07-2016, 11:38 AM   #2
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I remember being on a detail at an AMU unit and they were sorting 45 ACP hulls with a magnet. This was about 1961 at Ft Hood.
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Old 05-07-2016, 06:42 PM   #3
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Those were probably EC 43 or 44 from WW2 but there were reports of other recent products that may have been vapor ware

The process is probably a variant of the way Blazer aluminum cases are made which is likely similar to how Wolff is made too

There is no credible evidence that they hurt guns
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Old 05-08-2016, 09:20 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Petty View Post
There is no credible evidence that they hurt guns
They don't "hurt" guns per say. The problem is most all steel cased ammunition is cheap and filthy. Some of the reason is dirty burning powder that is used in it's manufacture. But the other more profound reason is the steel cases do not readily expand and seal the chamber as well as the much softer brass cases do. This causes a large amount of chamber blow by. This allows bolt carrier groups, as well as various parts of the receiver like trigger groups, to become filthy in short order. This is especially true in AR-15 rifles.

Some weapons like the AK-47 are designed around steel cased ammunition. Others like the AR-15 can fire it, but many succumb to problems directly because of it. While it is possible your AR-15 will run fine on it. I prefer to use brass cased ammunition and avoid all the risk. I'll save money elsewhere than by purchasing cheap, dirty ammo.
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:18 PM   #5
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OK, let's try this again, computer seems to have a mind of it's own tonight.

While I fired thousands of rounds of steel .45 left over from WWII (it was really cheap since it was corrosive and people didn't want to deal with it) without issue, I hesitate to use it in ARs.

The 7.62 x 39mm was designed with a pronounced case taper to ensure reliable extraction with steel cases. The 5.56 x 45mm was not designed in this manner, being based on brass cases. The difference is alleged to be different rates and percentages of dimensional spring back after the chamber pressure drops.

Hornaday has been flogging steel cases practice/training ammo in a couple of calibers. Allegedly made to their specs, but I don't know if they load it or just provide bullets to whoever does. If you were going to go steel case, this might be the way to go.

I did read a long term (10K rounds target) test of several different ammos for 5.56mm. Tula and Brown Bear were the steel case examples. Both had significantly reduced reliability and barrel life from brass case ammo by American makers. I don't recall details but the author(s) claimed that what you saved on cost would pay for new barrels. I don't recall how they reconciled the reliability issues.
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:43 PM   #6
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I read that article about steel case being hard on the barrel, but the problem really seemed separate from the case--it was that the powder eroded the gas hole/vent and had nothing to do with steel cases.
The issue should be: how much did you spend on your gun and is it worth shooting crap ammo through it?
Personally, I have tried reloading steel cases and found that they reloaded just fine; however, when fired the gun sort of "stuttered" like it was having a hard time extracting the case and the bullets hit far from where brass-case ammo hit. I could well see poor reliability in .223 and, possibly, extractor breakage.
So, if all you want to do is spray bullets around, don't buy an expensive gun or shoot a .223/5.56.
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billt View Post
They don't "hurt" guns per say. The problem is most all steel cased ammunition is cheap and filthy. Some of the reason is dirty burning powder that is used in it's manufacture. But the other more profound reason is the steel cases do not readily expand and seal the chamber as well as the much softer brass cases do. This causes a large amount of chamber blow by. This allows bolt carrier groups, as well as various parts of the receiver like trigger groups, to become filthy in short order. This is especially true in AR-15 rifles.

Some weapons like the AK-47 are designed around steel cased ammunition. Others like the AR-15 can fire it, but many succumb to problems directly because of it. While it is possible your AR-15 will run fine on it. I prefer to use brass cased ammunition and avoid all the risk. I'll save money elsewhere than by purchasing cheap, dirty ammo.
I have seen some that was dirty, but I have encountered some that was VERY clean. In fact, Wolf 7.62x39 FMJ is not only clean, but the cleanest ammunition I've ever encountered. After firing 100 rounds through my Arsenal AK I could find absolutely NO evidence the weapon had even been fired.

I then fired some Tula 123gr HP that was nasty dirty. And then some Tula 123 FMJ that was very clean; completely inconsistent.

I have yet to encounter ANY steel cased 9mm that I thought was especially dirty; all has been cleaner than Blazer.

I've heard more times than I can count of issues related to steel cased 5.56 in AR's but I have yet to have a single issue with steel cased 5.56 in my AR, nor have I even directly observed anyone else having ammunition related issues with steel cased 5.56.

But I appreciate all the hyperbole being spread about steel cased ammo; keeps prices down.
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Old 06-04-2016, 04:56 PM   #8
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Billt has the right of it, I believe. Since steel is not as ductile as brass, the chamber does not seal as well, so fouling can enter the chamber, and increase the chances of case sticking--this happened with my SU16. After extensive firing with steel cases, I had brass stick and had to hammer the cases out with a cleaning rod. After a good chamber scrub, function has been flawless.
Here is a video from Military Arms Channel that explains this:
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Old 06-09-2016, 05:58 PM   #9
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I have found that it depends on the firearm. IF the firearm has a robust extractor, go ahead and use the steel cased ammo. If it has a weak extractor like an M1 carbine then you are taking a chance on damaging the extractor. The carbine extractor is one of its weak points. The extractor on a 1911 is strong. Consider that before you shoot.
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