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Old 04-27-2016, 02:24 PM   #1
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factory ammo question

This kind of follows along the thread about priming cases. I did mange to trade off my ancient (I found several VN era empties in there) brass for much more current empties (09-present LC). The percentage of cases with less-than-SAAMI primer pocket depth is reduced, but still exists. Seems to be at least one set of case forming dies/punches with a slight flaw that leaves the primer pocket bottom at less than full depth, partially due to the bottom not being flat.

My question is this: obviously LC ammo plant didn't have any problem with priming the cases originally. Exactly how to they seat the primers? Used primers are dimensionally suspect, but it doesn't appear that CCI 41s are different in thickness than any other small rifle primer.

I've long believed that the concept of seating the primer until it just gently touches the bottom of the pocket is obsessive compulsive stuff borrowed from Benchresters to sell more gadgets. This seems kind of like living proof.
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Old 04-27-2016, 05:00 PM   #2
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I've always just seated primers until they wouldn't go any farther with "moderate" pressure (as judged by me at the moment).

If they're not sticking up past the rim at that point, they're good to go and get shot. But I'm not any kind of handloading guru.
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Old 04-27-2016, 06:13 PM   #3
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I'm with Snake on this.
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Old 04-27-2016, 07:44 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Snake45 View Post
I've always just seated primers until they wouldn't go any farther with "moderate" pressure (as judged by me at the moment).

If they're not sticking up past the rim at that point, they're good to go and get shot. But I'm not any kind of handloading guru.
Me the same;protruder's cause that FA effect
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Old 12-24-2016, 11:25 AM   #5
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MEA CULPA!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I just figured out where at least some of the misformed 5.56mm primer pockets are coming from: the dolt who adjusts the Dillion Primer Pocket Swage.

Dillons small rifle anvil is less than 0.224 and has a tapered point with a small tip. As a result, it tends to not support the entire inside area of the primer pocket. It falls at the six o clock position inside the case. If the anvil is adjusted to make sure the swage enters the primer pocket full depth, the anvil acts as a punch and deforms the bottom of the primer pocket.

Adjusting the anvil to allow just enough swaging to remove the crimp seems to solve the problem. Need to measure this adjustment and make appropriate notes. In BIG LETTERS.

I discovered this by doing my crimp swage after doing all the other case prep steps.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:36 PM   #6
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Unless there's something about the Dillon Swage that I don't get I've never heard of a primer pocket swaging system that was meant to penetrate to the bottom of the pocket. The only two I've used (RCBS and CH4D) are designed so that you press the crimp back into the smooth contour of the mouth of the pocket, then stop. Once the crimp is gone I don't think there's any reason to continue with a deeper penetration. It seems that might risk expanding (and thereby loosening) the pocket.

Is the Dillon system also designed to be a "uniformer"?

If only we had a reloading guru on the forum...
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:47 PM   #7
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If only we had a reloading guru on the forum...

We kinda do with "Hummer" he comes and goes
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Old 12-24-2016, 04:41 PM   #8
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We kinda do with "Hummer" he comes and goes
If I were Charlie, I'd be feeling pretty insulted right about now....
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Old 12-24-2016, 07:15 PM   #9
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And, speaking of "factory ammo", I worked here one summer replacing roofs on various structures.

Merry Christmas, you guys.
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:17 AM   #10
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If I were Charlie, I'd be feeling pretty insulted right about now....
Hey can't be guilty of what you do not know
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:27 AM   #11
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Cap G, I wasn't trying to get to the bottom of the pocket. With previous swagers, I'd been able to slightly roll the edge of the pocket and never had any issues with deforming the case web. However, the RCBS press mounted system had a centered, broader anvil to support the case web during swaging.

The Dillon Super Swage anvil has a sharply pointed tip and tends to droop below centerline. So, while I can remove the crimp, it doesn't appear I can roll the edges of the pocket without dimpling the bottom of the primer pocket. It does work that way, just wasn't what I was used to and primers seat just fine. The instructions Dillon provides show pix of cases with rolled primer pocket edges. No can do-at least with LC & TW brass in 5.56mm. Might consider grinding the anvil tip to a flatter profile.

As an after thought, PMC used to make 9mm cases with no crimp, but a sharp edged primer pocket similar to what I end up with now. I found after several reloads I had to swage the PMC pockets since they tended to form a slight crimp from repeated firings.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:41 AM   #12
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SNARL...

Since I do not use LC brass I have not had a problem... BUT I can answer the original question:

In the cup and draw process for forming cases the primer pocket is formed in the third step in forming bottleneck cases. The next step is "pierce and prime". Primers are fed from a rotary feeder. If a crimp is applied that would be the last die on the machine.
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