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Old 02-16-2016, 04:11 PM   #1
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Mystery [not] 30-06 bullet

Can anyone help ID this?
Boattail
Magnetic core
cupronickel jacket?




Last edited by ghusr; 02-19-2016 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:22 PM   #2
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I don't know what it is, at first I wanted to say it was Asian, but I'm not sure. Try this website

Headstamp Codes - International Ammunition Association
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:27 PM   #3
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My first thought was Korea....?
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Old 02-17-2016, 09:01 PM   #4
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Possibly Russian or other Slavic language speaking country

Thanks guys.

The symbol at top right looks to me like an Л (that's a Cyrillic 'L'). The other thing that looks like a 'K': I'm searching for that. I've already checked Headstamp Codes - International Ammunition Association without success. Working out the language it's in is step one I guess.
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Old 02-17-2016, 09:48 PM   #5
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Looks Cryllic to me, but it could be Asian. Could also be Finnish. The "N" looking character could be a U character also, and since the "K" looking one doesn't look like an actual letter, it could be a factory or Arsenal symbol. The Finns had oodles of different military head stamps...can be maddening at times. But it could be Asian as well.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:09 AM   #6
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Looks like Pi Chi in the Greek Alphabet. Could it be Greek Military Surplus? They used the M-1 after WWII.

Geoff
Who purely speculates.
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:44 AM   #7
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Don't know how accurate this info is but knowing the service might lead to manufacture..?

• Argentina - Received about 30,000 M1s from the US government before 1964. Some were converted to accept BM59 magazines in the 1960s.[49]
• Brazil - Received large numbers of M1s from the US government in the early 1950s. Some were converted to the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge and to accept FN FAL magazines.[49]
• Denmark - Received 69,810 M1 rifles (designated "Gevær m/50") from the US government prior to 1964. Some were converted to the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge.[50] Also purchased 20,000 M1s from Italy.[51] The rifle has now been phased out of service.
• Ethiopia - Received 20,700 M1 rifles from the US government in the 1960s.[50]
• France - Used by the Foreign Legion and Free French Forces.[52][53] France also received 232,500 M1 rifles from the US government in 1950-1964.[50]
• West Germany - Received 46,750 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1965.[50]
Greece - Received 186,090 M1 and 1880 M1C/M1D rifles from the US government prior to 1975.[50] Still in use for ceremonial duties by the Presidential Guard.
• Indonesia - Received between 55,000 and 78,000 M1s and a minor number of M1Cs from the US government prior to 1971; some rifles also supplied from Italy.[49]
• Iran - Received 165,490 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1964.[50]
Israel - Received up to 60,000 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1975.[50]
• Italy - Used by the army from 1945. Beretta license-built 100,000 M1s from 1950 until the adoption of the BM59 in 1959.[51] Also received 232,000 M1s from the US government between 1950 and 1970.[49]
• Jordan - Received an estimated 25,000-30,000 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1974.[50]
• Japan - A number were manufactured by Howa for the Japan Self-Defense Forces after World War II.[54]
Laos - Received 36,270 M1 rifles from the US government in 1950-1975.[50]
• Norway - Received 72,800 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1964.[50]
• Pakistan - Received possibly 150,000 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1975.[50]
• Paraguay - Received 30,750 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1975.[50]
• Philippines - Received 34,300 M1 and 2630 M1D rifles from the US government in 1950-1975.[50]

• Saudi Arabia - Received 34,530 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1975.[50]
• South Korea - Received 296,450 of M1 rifles from the US government in 1964-1974.[50]
• South Vietnam - Received 220,300 M1 and 520 M1C/M1D rifles from the US government in 1950-1975.[50]

• Thailand - Received about 40,000 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1965.[50]
• Turkey - Received 312,430 M1 rifles from the US government in 1953-1970.[50]
• United States - Standard issue rifle of the U.S. Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force from 1936 to 1963. Still in use for official military ceremonies and JROTC units.
• Venezuela - Received 55,670 M1 rifles from the US government prior to 1975.[50]

Is it IMI Israeli Military Institute:listed as 1961 IMI .308 Tear Gas Round
Surplusrifle Forum ? View topic - More headstamps

IMI, TK, TKK, or ת צ (T'aasiya Tz'vaeet, "Military Industries") Israeli Military Industries - Tel Aviv, Israel. Manufactures cartridges, clips, and disintegrating belt link

some more info on tips if needed.

Typical military loadings will include: Armor-piercing (AP), AP-Incendiary, Ball, Blank, Dummy, Gallery, High Pressure Test, Incendiary, and Tracer. Many of these will be identified by colored bullet tips. The following is a list of commonly found colored bullet tips on .30-06.

Black: AP
Black/Silver: AP Plate Test
Blue: Incendiary (also tracer from Argentina)
Green: AP from UK, Tracer from Argentina
Green/White: Frangible
Green/Tan: Frangible
Orange: Tracer
Red: Tracer (also some Incendiary from UK, and AP from Argentina)
Silver: Armor-piercing Incendiary
White: Tracer, unfinished Frangible,
Yellow: Observation and Proof rounds (AP from Belgium)

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page...-06-cartridges
Attached Images
File Type: jpg th_1961IMITearGas762Nato.jpg (7.6 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by Javlin; 02-18-2016 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 02-18-2016, 01:50 PM   #8
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I think you nailed it Javlin...Israeli. Great detective work.

Last edited by CaptainGyro; 02-18-2016 at 02:06 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-18-2016, 10:10 PM   #9
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more about the mystery round

Thanks Javlin! I have not been idle since posting last. I've found a few other similar headstamps around the traps- none of them with the same numerals, but all with the same other symbols which I am told are Hebrew. I wrote to an expert who, like me. was originally deceived by the "Л". Someone else with a similar bullet on his site 50-silver-red-headstamp said nothing about this one other than that it was 'from Israel', but that was the crucial clue. It appears not to be a Russian 'л' but rather a Hebrew Tav ת, and K-like thing is a Hebrew ˈṢādi צ. They are letters of the alphabet.

Here IDF ammo ID & Q's | Carolina Shooters Club
and here .308 Headstamp please Identify [Archive] - Calguns.net it is said that the two letters are hebrew for "TZ", designating that they were
'made by' the Tel Aviv arsenal. ""T'aas T'zvaot" roughly translates to "for military use" by IMI (Israeli Military Industries)".

Here-http://www.ak47.net/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=133&t=658131- , someone is selling his collection, and one colour coded the same as mine he calls an API, armour-piercing incendiary, which my expert also says mine is.

Being a total noob, I got the caliber wrong. It is between 12 and 13 mm diameter and the case is 99mm/4 inches long. My expert thought at first sight that it was a 50 cal Browning MG cartridge and indeed the proportions are all correct for the wikipedia listing of ".50 BMG (12.7×99mm NATO)" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_mm_caliber), if only Israel were actually in NATO (but they were, as Javlin has said, recipients of US weapons up 'til 1975; maybe they also received heavy machine gun ammo, or made their bullets exactly the same as the US).

Here IDF ammo ID & Q's | Carolina Shooters Club , the second set of numerals is taken as the year of production, mine being from 1974 if this is correct. The first one might therefore be the month, the 6th month being June.

So that's it for now. If anyone can flesh out the story from here that would be great. Thanks to all for your consideration.

Last edited by ghusr; 02-18-2016 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 02-18-2016, 10:15 PM   #10
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measurements




Last edited by ghusr; 02-18-2016 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 02-19-2016, 12:23 AM   #11
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where to get specific ammo? - AR15.Com Archive

"Numbers are lot # and year of mfg. 6-70 isn't June 1970, but lot #6 of 1970"
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Old 02-19-2016, 06:39 AM   #12
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Start looking at 13mm rounds used by the Luftwaffe The Israeli AF got hold of some 109's called AVIA S-199
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 008israel03.jpg (20.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 0509254.jpg (168.0 KB, 4 views)
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:51 AM   #13
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Looks hebrew to me.
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Old 02-21-2016, 05:39 AM   #14
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The MG 131 (shortened from German: Maschinengewehr 131, or "Machine gun 131") was a German 13 mm caliber machine gun developed in 1938 by Rheinmetall-Borsig and produced from 1940 to 1945. The MG 131 was designed for use at fixed, flexible or turreted, single or twin mountings in Luftwaffe aircraft during World War II.

It was one of the smallest, if not the smallest among the heavy machine guns, the weight was less than 60% of the M2 Browning or the Breda 12.7 mm. Despite this, the MG 131 was a rapid fire weapon with an elevated firepower for its mass. It was equipped with HE rounds.[citation needed] The nearer equivalent could have been the Ho-103. The other Axis main machine gun, the Breda 12.7 mm, was around 13 kg heavier and bigger, while slower by at least 150 rpm. The small size of the MG 131 meant the possibility to replace the 7.92 mm machine guns even in the small nose of the Luftwaffe fighters, which was commonplace from 1943 onwards. This weapon was a marked improvement as the greater armour protection Allied aircraft received rendered smaller calibers almost useless. This was especially true when it came to heavy Allied bombers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_131_machine_gun
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Old 02-21-2016, 07:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic49 View Post
Looks like Pi Chi in the Greek Alphabet. Could it be Greek Military Surplus? They used the M-1 after WWII.

Geoff
Who purely speculates.
All the Greek surplus 30-06 ammo I have seen is head stamped HXP.
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Old 02-21-2016, 06:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghusr View Post
where to get specific ammo? - AR15.Com Archive

"Numbers are lot # and year of mfg. 6-70 isn't June 1970, but lot #6 of 1970"
Missed this post kinda makes the Avia's post mute to late of a date.I see were someone posted a pic of the rifle to go along with the rounds looked like it could be used on light armor vehicles maybe?
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:48 AM   #17
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Wow, this is a great thread ! ! ! ! !

2016 Soldier of Fortune NRA Board of Directors Endorsements (Ballots in March mags)

Last edited by Hummer; 03-09-2016 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 02-26-2016, 07:42 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghusr View Post
where to get specific ammo? - AR15.Com Archive

"Numbers are lot # and year of mfg. 6-70 isn't June 1970, but lot #6 of 1970"
Can you get some dial calipers on this one?or have you figured it out?They make them were they can go from inches to metric in the digital setup available at your local parts house or harbor freight.The measurements are real close to a 50BMG.The tape at the base show 19mm but 20.42mm is needed for the 50 but is the end tape extended?it's for cutting wood I think and slides some the width of a blade.

Last edited by Javlin; 02-26-2016 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 03-07-2016, 01:48 PM   #19
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Well, small world. I found this on the ground at the range the other day, and thanks to this thread knew exactly what the headstamp meant. This one is a 9mm:



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