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Old 12-18-2015, 08:53 AM   #1
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Filipino Military experiments with new rifle caliber

The Philippines are experimenting with a new 7.62 round. I would guess they aim to work it into the AR platform of rifles.

Moe information at the links below:

International Ammunition Association {iaaforum.org} - View topic - 7.62 x 37 mm Musang

GA Musang 7.62mm x 37mm
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Old 12-19-2015, 02:22 AM   #2
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Damn silly for a small country, economically, to go with a unique round. Better to stick with allies standard.
Geoff
Who notes the Israeli experience.
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:23 AM   #3
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Damn silly for a small country, economically, to go with a unique round. Better to stick with allies standard.
Geoff
Who notes the Israeli experience.
Agreed.
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Old 12-19-2015, 04:21 PM   #4
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They've got a good manufacturing base of their own. The round is probably close to the same price as 5.56mm and certainly a better match for suppressed work in special ops. Just because they're looking at it doesn't mean it's going to become general issue.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:44 AM   #5
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Ballistically it makes complete sense as a special purpose round, but zero sense as a general issue round.

Now why they feel some compelling need to design a new cartridge when .300 Blackout and other similar rounds already exist is beyond me. If they made it in .300 Blackout then they'd be able to produce the ammunition cheaper by selling it on the US civilian market.

I like the .300 Blackout, it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways. But it doesn't make sense as a general issue round unless 99% of your fighting involves shooting through barriers.
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Old 12-21-2015, 06:47 PM   #6
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Ballistically it makes complete sense as a special purpose round, but zero sense as a general issue round.

Now why they feel some compelling need to design a new cartridge when .300 Blackout and other similar rounds already exist is beyond me. If they made it in .300 Blackout then they'd be able to produce the ammunition cheaper by selling it on the US civilian market.

I like the .300 Blackout, it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways. But it doesn't make sense as a general issue round unless 99% of your fighting involves shooting through barriers.
I agree. It might be a public relations thing, actually. As the Filipinos have an ongoing counterinsurgency fight against the Malayan terror cells and domestic ones, plus a tradition of "Home rolling" guns, this might be a showcase of sorts for their industry and special operations folks.

On the subject of Israel, I could definitely see the Filipinos whipping up a domestic long gun like the Galil or HK-416, some kind of rifle they engineered to their purposes. That might workout OK for them. Maybe a piston type AR platform chambered in a 7.62 round of some sort, or with 5.56 & 7.62 versions.

Your point about them exporting Ammo is also a good one. If ammo demand is so high in the US, allowing more imports makes sense, if the demand can support them as well as support US industry right now. It helps a lot of folks at home and abroad.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:08 PM   #7
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...As the Filipinos have an ongoing counterinsurgency fight against the Malayan terror cells and domestic ones
The Filipinos have been fighting Muslims/Moros ever since the US Army fought them in the early 1900s. That's what showed the Army the .38 was not a reliable man stopper and give us the 45ACP.

Last edited by csmkersh; 12-22-2015 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:35 AM   #8
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I agree. It might be a public relations thing, actually. As the Filipinos have an ongoing counterinsurgency fight against the Malayan terror cells and domestic ones, plus a tradition of "Home rolling" guns, this might be a showcase of sorts for their industry and special operations folks.

On the subject of Israel, I could definitely see the Filipinos whipping up a domestic long gun like the Galil or HK-416, some kind of rifle they engineered to their purposes. That might workout OK for them. Maybe a piston type AR platform chambered in a 7.62 round of some sort, or with 5.56 & 7.62 versions.

Your point about them exporting Ammo is also a good one. If ammo demand is so high in the US, allowing more imports makes sense, if the demand can support them as well as support US industry right now. It helps a lot of folks at home and abroad.
If they truly feel there is a need, I see no harm. I still think it would just make financial sense to do a more established round so the US shooting public could subsidize their new ammunition program; that just makes good business sense. And there's nothing "broken" about he .300 Blackout.

But if their special ops guys feel the need, then by all means provide what they need. How tough it is to just re-barrel an AR for a round that will reliably feed out of an AR magazine?

The Philippines just made a big purchase of Remington M4's which kinda surprised me. They have made home grown M16A1's for decades, and if you have the ability to make A1's, you should be able to make M4's so I was really surprised when they bought the Remingtons. Maybe they're buying them with US military aid, which requires that money be spent with US companies & US weapon systems.
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:14 PM   #9
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I don't play with suppressors (yet) or the .300 Blackout/Whisper. However, some folks in my last Patrol Rifle Instructors school gave me the impression that getting reliable functioning in suppressed mode with sub sonic ammo is somewhat of an art form. That doesn't bode well for serious work-at least with 10 inch barrels.

Kevin's comment about "foreign aid" is probably correct. If nothing else, a cheap way to see if there's a good reason to make an A1 to A2 configuration change. [Front sight adjustments, hand guards, flat top receiver and flash suppressor: yes. Barrel profile and pistol grip -maybe. Rest of the changes that I recall: NO! I particularly dislike the A2 rear sight, it's entirely too prone to get readjusted by contact with gear and/or a bored troopie.]
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Old 01-08-2016, 08:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Skeptic49 View Post
Damn silly for a small country, economically, to go with a unique round. Better to stick with allies standard.
More opportunity for graft and corruption.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by William R. Moore View Post
...some folks in my last Patrol Rifle Instructors school gave me the impression that getting reliable functioning in suppressed mode with sub sonic ammo is somewhat of an art form.
There is some often-overlooked advice about loading 300 Blackout. I has to do with the shoulder rib in the mag. Most semi-auto mags (and some others) have a similar rib, designed to engage the shoulder of the loaded rounds and prevent them from slamming against the forward wall of the mag during recoil.



When loading AR mags with 5.56 ammo, the rib engages the rounds at the case neck, where the diameter is about 6.4mm. The problem is that when loading Blackout rounds, the rib engages the bullet, where the max diameter is (duh) 7.62mm. Therefore, for reliable feeding AAC recommends that bullets be seated deep enough that the rib engages the ogive at a point well forward of the bore diameter.

This isn't a big deal when loading supersonic, but the (usually) longer, heavier bullets used for subsonic loads present a problem. Unless they're loaded fairly deep in the case, the shoulder rib tends to cant the rounds inward toward the center of the mag, causing potential feed issues.

Here's what AAC has to say about the issue (particularly the note in red at the bottom):


Last edited by CaptainGyro; 01-09-2016 at 07:23 AM.
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