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Old 09-30-2004, 08:25 AM   #1
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What happened to Black Talon ammo?

Im confused . I have heard all kinds of things. Was it banned or just discontinued?
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:29 AM   #2
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Discontinued. Not banned.
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:10 AM   #3
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Thanks for clearing that up, a friend of mine gave me a box of 230gr SXT .45ACP Black Talons and he said they had banned them. I have heard various people call them "cop killers", what is the deal with that?
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:36 AM   #4
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media slander, nothing less.

BTs came out not too long after the infamous KTW ballistic vest penetrating bullets were banned. The KTW bullets were the original bullets called "cop-killers." They were never, and still have never been used to kill a cop, though *if* you wanted to do such a thing, I suppose they (KTWs) would be the handgun round of choice as they will penetrate a "bulletproof vest." the KTW round was a solid, pointed broze projo with a teflon coating to protect the bore from the hard bronze.

the infamous BTs had sharp edges that were supposed to open up and cause additional trauma, and an eeeeevil-looking "lubaloy" black coating. In practice, they did not prove any more effective than regular high-quality modern hollowpoints. but, surgeons complained that the sharp points were sticking them during GSW surgery. that's the reason, coupled with wrongful media hype, that BTs were discontinued. they were not worth the negative publicity.

in retrospect, BTs are seen as an unremarkable performer saddled with a nefarious reputation, worth far more to collectors than to shooters.

they are not regulated any differently than any other common hollowpoint bullet.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:13 AM   #5
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I think Winchester repackaged as "Ranger" brand.The bullets look the same, just no Black.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:38 AM   #6
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Thanks delloro and Jne77 for the info.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:44 AM   #7
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What's truly funny is that the PMC Starfire, which was released earlier than the Black Talon, used the same cutting type of edges. In fact, Guns & Ammo had a picture of it entering ballistic gelatin, and showing strips of gelatin being thrown out of the entry hole. I guess it just didn't attract enough attention, as they're still on the market.
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Old 09-30-2004, 11:59 AM   #8
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Winchester discontinued BT because of 'media hype' & especially after Colin Ferguson shot all those people on a New York subway. He had travelled to CA., established residency, purchased a Ruger 9mm from Turner's Outdoorsman in Long Beach along with some BT ammo. He went back to New York with his purchase & shot several people on the subway. The year was 1993 IIRC. The media made such a stink about the ammo used in the shooting(BT) that Winchester decided to take BT off the market(along with other false accusations).

I have a few boxes of 9mm, .45acp, .357mag, & .44mag. I'll probably never shoot them. I see BT @ gunshows selling for $50/20rds. Who knows, if someone is willing to pay $100+/bx I just might have enough to make another nice gun purchase . I would not pay that much for a box of bullets though.
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Old 09-30-2004, 12:57 PM   #9
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I love the PMC Starfire ammo!! VERRY accurate!!
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Old 10-03-2004, 02:25 PM   #10
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Yep! The Starfire has an excellent rep for accuracy, and will begin to expand at velocities as low as 500 fps. I have it in virtually all calibers. The Black Talon is a collectible now. I have about a case in .45 ACP, some 9mm, some .357 Mag., and a couple of boxes in .44 Mag. I'll just follow the example, and hold onto it until it reaches obscene prices, then SELL!!!
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Old 10-04-2004, 01:25 PM   #11
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I recently (August ) bought a box of .40 S&W Black Talons on Gunbroker for $19 for a twenty round box. I had never intended on buying any since it seemed everyone wanted at least $40 a box for it. I've shot four of them and fourteen of the others reside in my Glock 23.
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