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Old 11-22-2008, 10:56 PM   #21
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Re: Powder recommendation

Blusteel, I did not understand all. Is IMR4064 close to N540 ?
Or are you saying that N540 is so intolerant that I should hand measure each load?
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Old 11-24-2008, 02:30 PM   #22
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Re: Powder recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sikke
Blusteel, I did not understand all. Is IMR4064 close to N540 ?
Or are you saying that N540 is so intolerant that I should hand measure each load?
No, what I meant was that IMR 4064 is a long, "husky grained" powder in comparison to the common, extruded Varget, RE15, 4895 variants. Having said that, the 4064 doesn't meter quite as smoothly or accurately in terms of end net weight. There are two reasons for this -

• There tends to be a greater amount of free air space around the granules of the larger grained extruded powders.

• Being that the grain of the IMR 4064 is larger than the aforementioned three powders, I often have to "cut" through this powder with each cycle of my powder measure. This disrupts the steadiness of the operation. . . which translates into a variation of weight with each cycle.
What I mean by the "steadiness of the operation" is, if you bump the measure apparatus in the slightest amount, you'll notice that some cycles will he heavy and some will be light.
If I want 44 grains of IMR 4064, I'll preset the powder measurer to throw approx 42 - 43 grains and trickle in the rest.

I've never used the Viht 540 and therefore, I have no opinion. The Viht N 135 is much more popular in the states, as I recall, particularly for the match shooters.

^ Hope that helps ~

BTW - Do you really have to go to Belgium to shoot ? :P
I'm kidding.
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Old 11-24-2008, 02:39 PM   #23
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Re: Powder recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sikke
Has anyone got more experience with Vihtavuori N540 powder? There was lack of VV N100 series in my gunstore, so I ended to get N540 home instead.

Now I have both M1A and M1 Garand. Would be nice to hear other opinions.
VV powders have poor market penetration here in California and I suspect the same holds true elsewhere in the states. I would check the forums and reloading data at Accurate Reloading I have found a more international group there. They may have more experience with N540. Let us know what you find.
 
 
Old 11-25-2008, 08:41 AM   #24
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Re: Powder recommendation

Blusteel, don´t know what´s cituation in Belgium, but in Finland at least we can still keep guns on home and shoot and hunt with everyman right. But seems to be strained after every general election

For reloading there is allmost only Vihtavuori powders what are available. And most cases gunstores are selling empty shelf.
There fore I must try to find compromise with not so acceptable powder

djl,
Did not find other experiences with N540, but some info with H414 and WW760. According to burning rate chart they should be close enough. I have also this copy of Quick load program. I am not experienced reloader, but what you say about these diagrams ?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMR4895.jpg (66.0 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg N540.jpg (67.6 KB, 44 views)
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:51 AM   #25
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Re: Powder recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sikke
but some info with H414 and WW760. According to burning rate chart they should be close enough.
Do not use H414 in an M1 or an M1A. It is way too slow. Varget and 4064 are the cutoff points for burn rate. Alliant RL15 has been suggested in other threads. I don't remember with Olin powder is comparable.
 
Old 11-25-2008, 10:09 AM   #26
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Re: Powder recommendation

Same diagram to IMR 4064 wit blusteel 44gr load.
But these programs dont do any good if you dont know how to use it. In my case I am not so sure do I have enough experience.
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File Type: jpg IMR4064.jpg (69.0 KB, 47 views)
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:41 AM   #27
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Re: Powder recommendation

Chamber pressure in an M1 or M1A is not an issue with slow burning powders. The receivers of these rifles are often regarded as over engineered. The main concern with powder burn rate is pressure at the gas port. The amount of gas that enters the gas system is a function of the pressure at the port and the amount of time the gas has to flow through the port. Slower burning powders can generate milder chamber pressures, but higher gas port pressures and can introduce still burning powder into the gas system itself. Excessive pressure in the gas system causes a violent actuation of the oprod and bolt. It can slam the bolt back so hard you could end up wearing parts of the rifle as facial piercings.

I am not sure the program that produced these graphs is correctly modeling the pressure curve and the low density charge (Note the low velocity result) specified for N540 is almost sure to introduce unburned powder into the gas system.
 
Old 12-09-2008, 08:48 AM   #28
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Re: Powder recommendation

Sikke,
I have used Quickload program for several years ( until the computor crash this summer) and found it to be a useful tool. Chrongraph will verify how close the predicted velocities are, for your loads.
Combined with Quick Target, you can setup guns to come real close to elevation adjustments out to 1000 yards, with different load combos. If your load goes subsonic too far from the target, you will get destabilized bullet flight and yes, keyhole effect. You have to input all the correct data you have for powder type, bullet make and weight, case weight ( measured in how many grains of water they will hold) case OAL , bullet seating depth , outdoor temp, barrel length etc.

The example you are showing for Blues load appears to be input into a load for a 30'06 case and not the 308. Hence the low chamber pressures. Accuracy loads are suppose to be curved into the magenta ( purplish) section.
Also my program runs in FPS, PSI, grains of powder, ME in FtLbs etc. (an old US mind )

I swapped over from IMR 4895 to N135 in early 90's for 308 Service rifle and have had no problems as long as I pay attention to the type of cases (case weight) and bullet seating depth, for the various gas guns I shoot. N135 has proved itself in 308 bolt gun loads I shoot in Benchrest also. From 155s to 175s

I also used N135 in 223 gas gun loads for 200/300 with the 52gr and 69gr SMK, but used N530 for 600 yrd with both 80gr and 77gr SMKs. Short line scores improved some( higher X count ) due to more time to dress up the shot. 600yrd scores equaled my usual mid 190's score with 308.
N powders have always shown consistency from lot to lot, year to year. I hope they don't become "scarce" here.
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Old 12-18-2008, 05:08 PM   #29
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Re: Powder recommendation

Karl, have you tried 4895?
A 168SMK, match prepped LC case, and 42 gr. of IMR4895 is sweet. That load is fired from an SA NM M1-A. Groups are under an inch from bags.

My journeyman load is 147gr fmjbt pulled NATO, 42 gr 4895, in LC/TW cases. The rifle, an LRB receivered TRW clone, 2/63 tube, all USGI. It shoots around 1.5" not looking to split hairs, just knock S@$T down, it's my go to rifle.

Other friends that shoot the M14 platform have used my loads with great success, it works. Every rifle is different, but this basic load is a good start.

I've tried Varget in the match rifle, but it likes 4895 best so far, still experimenting though.
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:25 PM   #30
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Hi

Just joined, I am english but live in France. I have used Vhitavuori powder for 8 years no problems. I use N310 in my HK usp Tactical .45 acp. 4.2Gn and 200Gn copper plated lead bullet. I have just bought a Sabatti 30-06 Scout rifle and I am reloading with Vhita N540 at 45Gn and a copper boat tail hollow point 165Gn. The rifle is very new to me (it is new) so groups at 100m are only 2".
The Lee powder measure is not able to drop the same weight every time so I am using a trickler and a very accurate electronic scale for every round. Next season I will be hunting with this once I get it right. I hope the info re the Vhita N540 powder helps, yes it is long grained, yes it is difficult to dispense, but it burns very cleanly and results seem very reliable.
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:43 PM   #31
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talk about resurrecting an old thread- and yes , the lee is capable of repetitive weights trrown every time - IT'S THE POWDER YOU'RE USING IT WITH- if you were to move to a more CIVILZED powder like 335 or 748 or any of the ZEDIKER MATCH LOADS YOU WOULD FIND THIS- ALSO I FIND I CUT KERNELS when i'm using that crap you're talking about- ,also we were speaking of 308 w , not 06- big difference in both powders and charge weights

Last edited by t-star; 03-22-2016 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:04 PM   #32
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Welcome hkmk23. Have a look around and don't be afraid to ask questions or share your thoughts. All we ask for is civilized discourse, and not everyone here is grumpy.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:45 PM   #33
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Win 748 and AA2520 have been favorites for me in medium capacity cases like the .308.
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Old 03-25-2016, 04:06 PM   #34
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During the powder shortages I was experimenting with powders for the .308 with the 175 gr SMK. I've found that AR Comp does very well with this bullet. It's apparently too slow for 155 gr Palma loads, but does quite well with the heavier bullet. RE15 does well too if you're loading for accuracy, not velocity. I couldn't quite get the velocity I was looking for.

I've never really understood the fascination with the 168 gr SMK. It was designed for 300 meter competition and there are better bullets for longer range.

BTW, if someone wants ~90 Laupa Senars 155 gr bullets, pay the postage. I couldn't get them to group in my rifle.
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